Quick survey: courtesy lights OK in your province? [Archive]

ehetu

07-28-2004, 07:23 PM

Our province, Quebec, is "studying" courtesy lights after a trial where responders were allowed a non-flashing green dash light in their personal vehicles. It seems to me that every jurisdiction allows courtesy lights of one colour or another except Quebec (they're still "studying" whether Quebeckers can handle "right-turn-on-red" or if chaos will ensue).

So are courtesy lights allowed in your territory? What colour and specs? Do they help? Do citizens respect them?

edmond
Chelsea FD, Qc

Michael13

07-28-2004, 09:30 PM

Ya we use green rotators and or strobe lights here in Ontario. Our citizens didnt really know what they were a few years ago, but now more awareness has been put out and many citizens see them and respect them. The people that see them always pull over, and theres always a few who dont even see the big 20 ton truck with dozens of lights and sirens and horns. But it has amazed me how many people will pull over for a little green light flashing on my dash. We were all issued the lights as standard equipment by our Chief and we are expected to use them.

bcfire

07-29-2004, 05:21 AM

PEI HAS RED ROTATORS/STROBES

JGallagher

07-29-2004, 05:29 AM

There was a study done in NB I think that they went against allowing us to use lights!!

firefighter9calt

07-29-2004, 04:49 PM

In Nova Scotia as far as I know We are not allowed to use courtesy lights. We can use our 4way flashers and our fire constables have a revolving red light but can not use responding to the scene only while setup to direct traffic.

JGallagher

07-29-2004, 05:11 PM

I was once told that we can use our 4-ways. Though we cant speed or run lights. I my self use my 4-ways.

wilderness

08-03-2004, 09:42 AM

Here in ontario we are from what i have been told allowed to use a flashing green light/ on the dash or in the grills of the vehicle as long as they aren,t able to be viewed from the rear of the vehicle.
I have responded to calls using the green light and have had some success. There should be more advertisement about the flashing green light to make the public aware of what it is..... and obey all the traffic rules...its a courtesy light not god mode

Michael13

08-04-2004, 08:37 AM

I was in our local MTO office the other day and there was a poster on the wall letting citizens know we use flashing green lights. I asked, the person working said every office in Ontario is supposed to have to on there walls. And when we were all issued our lights our Chief called our local paper and asked them to do a little write up on it, and they did. I would say 80% of the people in out area know what they are and pull over when they see them.

bcfire

08-05-2004, 06:52 PM

Responded to an MVA the other day, had to pull over for responding RCMP. Got there about 5 min behind RCMP.Using red rotator, 4-ways and flashing brights. Lots of folks in on-coming lanes pulled over but had to "honk out" a few who never check their rear views. Told RCMP that I should have "tucked in behind them", just got a smile in return. Take care BCFIRE

bfrd22

08-06-2004, 11:16 AM

Green Lights allowed in AB, However your community or municipality must also pass a Bylaw permitting usage of these. Further we have to issue a letter to our Insurance Co. (Dept Requirement). Advising that we are using the Green light in our vehicle.

ehetu

08-06-2004, 06:52 PM

You must alert your insurance co.? And how do they react?

The word here is if we ever get into an accident on the way to/from a call, never tell anyone that you were on a call -- otherwise the insurance company will use that as an excuse to avoid or reduce their liability. If true, I think that sucks because we're more likely to save them a bundle by responding than not. And to add insult to injury, every now and then they sue us because they think we made mistakes on the fireground. If you use rotators I guess they'll figure out you're a VFF and ding you for a increased premium...

Edmond
Chelsea FD

FireEMTGuy

08-07-2004, 07:48 PM

Like bfrd22 stated it is permitted in Alberta as per the Highway Traffic Act for Emergency Personell to respond code 2 (no siren only green lights dash or grill mounted) to the hall or scene.

However, I have not heard of being obigated to report to the INS company....

bfrd22

08-09-2004, 08:36 AM

The notice to Ins is an in house issue, we just wanted to ensure that the insurance co's could not back out because we were in an accicent while responding to a call. Our lights and mirror Assemblies are also Dept Issued and owned by the Dept... Another reason for the Insurance Notification

No one has recieved an increase because of the green as it is a courtesy light. and is permitted under the highway traffic act.

We have been advised by the RCMP the when running the lights if we were involved in an accident it would automatically be assumed we were at fault. Until proven otherwise. Basicly they'll hang us on anything they can, so drive responsibly.

We've had members pulled over in the past jsut for having the light on the dash....We got that straightened out. (new transffer RC's from out of prov). All members since have a copy of the Highway act in there vehicles along with our bylaw. But we havn't had a problem now for quite a while. Our lights and mirror Assemblies are also Dept Issued and owned by the Dept... Another reason for the Insurance Notification.

ndvfd_ff33

08-18-2004, 02:05 AM

In Nova Scotia The only people who can have lights are Chief Officers..And As firefighter9calt said Constable and can only use them on scene..And Chiefs also have to be able to prove they are a chief to the police if questioned while pulled over for some reason....

firefighter9calt....I am quite sure if yah do some searching using 4-ways is BADDDDD..My uncle whos a cop here in Middleton dinged me a couple times..so..I'd be carefull on that one

Quincy

08-18-2004, 04:49 PM

Like everyone from the province of Ontario has mentionned by now, the use of a green light is allowed.

But there should be department guidelines written out for all firefighters to follow.

For example in our department 90% of our volunteers must cross the Trans Canadian Highway to be able to reach the firehall. You can imagine the confusion that a flashing light can cause and who hard is slow down and quickly pull over on the shoulder when travelling at a speed of 100 km/hr.

The first rull is no excessive speeding or disobeying the highway traffic act by firefighters !!!!!!!! If pulled over by police we can be charged under the HTA regardless of the green light activated. The subject line says it all : COURTESY LIGHT.

Second when comming to traffic light's and the light turn's red we have to disconnect our light and the same when comming to a stop sign. The reason for this is that we do not cause accidents or fatalities due to confusion and people giving us the right of way and not realizing the traffic behind them.

The main gold is to arrive at the scene of incident in one piece without creating another.

ltfirefighter9ns

08-18-2004, 05:56 PM

ndvfd_ff33 you are quite right about using the 4 ways. But the Mounties as far as I know have never dinged anyone in our dept and a few people actually pull over when they see them especially with the red plates.

ndvfd_ff33

08-19-2004, 03:33 AM

When I say dinged I don't mean actually pulled me over and gave a warning or a ticket..But more Cautioned me during Family Events or when he sees me in town..Because not all cops are like him...And For some info i use 4-ways goin to Every Call...On the main car I use we dont even have VFF plates but we got a mini plate in the front left hand side of the front window..And people tell me they can see it..I don't know how but they do and many have pulled over....In a smaller place like Middleton most people know who the firefighters are and what vehicles they have so thats also a bonus

awhite

09-06-2004, 06:52 AM

Here in New Brunswick they are not permitted. Myself as well as everyone else i speek to on this topic feel that they should be allowed

lharrity

12-30-2004, 09:33 AM

i am a VFF in NB, and as stated before that courtesy lights are not alloud....and im not sure why...after all they are "courtesy" lights, i live in a fairly rural area and it takes some firefighters a few min to respond to the fire hall, and due to the large area we cover often it is more practical for people to respond directly to the sene. Its been my experiance that people are willing to pull over for firefighters....they see the 4-ways and the plates and pull right over....however sometimes the four ways are hard to see if you are in a hurry and are pulled up close. Often times we come upon people driving well below the speed limit that don't notice us and therefore don't pull over....in the case of major fires/MVA's it is very important we get to the sene asap. Lives are on the line... and its well understood that we aren't going to kill ourselfs getting to the fire thats no good...however, often we end up driving dangerously, trying to pass people in the wrong lane because they don't see us...i think these courtesy lights would be a good investment for the Prov of NB, and insure better responce time and safety for FF's.:p

Red_Devil

01-02-2005, 03:48 AM

enough said about the garsh damn topic

ndvfd_ff33

01-02-2005, 07:42 AM

Almost getting as bad as the firehouse fourms...:D

tcvfd16

01-02-2005, 11:28 AM

well here is my two cents worth:

Due to our setting i do believe that the lights are needed, with four busy highways and covering part of the 401 the light do help us respond abit faster/safer. With alot of us in the country and can not get to the hall before the rigs leave, we have to respond directly to the call. there is always going to be someone that is going to do something stupid. It is a good idea to let the chief know about it so him can do something about it.

this is my opinion, if you don't like it.....too bad

JC

emtshields

01-02-2005, 03:28 PM

I am from the Niagara region on southern Ontario and the use of a green light is up to the cheif. I know being a X member of Niagara Falls that green lights are NOT premitted, but in the surronding towns Welland , NOTL , Fort Erie and Linson they are allowed. I vol. in Lewiston New York as EMT and i know we use green lights on out dash and the vol. fire uses blue.
Under the highway traffic act in Ontario even a vol paramedic or EMA can use a green light , but that was just put in to effect.
Some places in NJ it is the law to pull over for green and blue lights but yet they are not allowed to run red lightsso whats the point oh well.There are so many people on both sides to use or not some think that they should be able to use red light, ya makes sense a little bit but than not really.In NY State they are crazy anyways responding to priority 2(lights and sirens) call they dont stop for stop signs ot red lights, they say i go to slow ,but i like the shinny side up and rubber side down!!!

KEEP SAFE

bestcoast

01-02-2005, 08:03 PM

If we wanna keep beating this dead horse the topic is on going:rolleyes: in the Vehicle thread.......BC...

emtshields

01-02-2005, 08:06 PM

resqteacher

01-07-2005, 06:38 PM

I actually had one of our local, on duty OPP officers, pull over and give me the right of way last night on the way to the hall with my light on.
It was a nice courtesy.

JGallagher

01-07-2005, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by awhite
Here in New Brunswick they are not permitted. Myself as well as everyone else i speek to on this topic feel that they should be allowed

Where in NB are you?

Hamp42

01-17-2005, 06:38 AM

Here in NB, it is no lights. It has been looked into and for now has been dropped.
Even if you use the 4-way flashers on your personal vehicle, it can mean a fine from the local police force (mostly RCMP). 4-ways are meant for emergency stopping only and not running the roads to the fire hall. The RCMP mostly ignore this rule but god help you if you speed or run stop signs. You are on your own!!

rescue1008

02-10-2005, 10:38 PM

All we have in our town of 700 + is we are allowed to use our 4 ways and have a front plate to identify us.

So in other words with front plate and 4 ways we drive like crazy people... AND FUNNY, THE RCMP WONT TOUCH US

bestcoast

02-11-2005, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by rescue1008
All we have in our town of 700 + is we are allowed to use our 4 ways and have a front plate to identify us.

So in other words with front plate and 4 ways we drive like crazy people... AND FUNNY, THE RCMP WONT TOUCH US

I'm not touching this with a ten foot pole!!........;) ...BC.....

Toxic

02-11-2005, 08:08 AM

I will not cut and paste the highway traffic act again but...

No such thing as "courtesy lights" in Manitoba. Fire personnel may have red lights in their personal vehicles and those vehicles are considered Emergency Vehicles same as the actual Fire truck when responding to a fire.

I have a red light. I like it. I'm responsible with it and I'm keeping it. Some disagree on the whole red light issue and that's fine - they have a right to their opinion. Some guys shouldn't have them; the same guys that shouldn't drive the pumper.

wilderness

02-11-2005, 08:23 AM

AAAAAAAG Let the devil handle this one....................... idiots breaking the speed limit, and racing to a scene and the RCMP do nothing....when the accident happens, i hope your guys don't have to respond, to dig you out of the tangled mess.....save them all the hastle... park your car...... its a courtesy light "NOT GOD MODE".....

FireEMTGuy

02-11-2005, 04:08 PM

die die die!

iamvff

02-11-2005, 06:58 PM

I repeat........It only takes one!!!!!!

Be safe
iamvff:confused:

DFCSmash

02-11-2005, 08:35 PM

[i]
So in other words with front plate and 4 ways we drive like crazy people... AND FUNNY, THE RCMP WONT TOUCH US [/B]

But they should. And they will. But, you will notice, that there are no red/courtesy lights involved. So I rest my case. Idiots are idiots. You don't need a light to qualify. Or not.

So when you "drive like crazy" you better not hit me or one of my family members. Because, I can assure you, you, your department and your community don't have the resources to cover what WILL happen.

Slow the **** down. It's always more important that you get there than that you get there right now. How are you going to feel when they yank some 4 year old and their tricycle out from under your car? Oh, and by the way, when it happens, you won't make the truck. :rolleyes:

BTW, this doesn't change my viewpoint about lights, and just reinforces what myself and others have said about education and enforcement. The RCMP aren't doing anyone any favours if they are in fact allowing such behaviour.

I looked at this earlier and was just hoping to let this die, but it won't. There's no sense in killing this thread, because it will just resurface in about 2 weeks max. Damn, it was almost on page 2 when it got revived this time.:D

:cool:

bestcoast

02-12-2005, 08:26 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DFCSmash
[B]But they should. And they will. But, you will notice, that there are no red/courtesy lights involved. So I rest my case. Idiots are idiots. You don't need a light to qualify. Or not.

Tomatoe..Tomato....;) ..BC....

BCFFFV

02-13-2005, 12:26 AM

Now there is an idea.....don't think it would happen out here but it beats a guy I knew when I was a volunteer who drove up behind someone on the way to the firehall waving a pager at him to move over.....No it wasn't me!

Scuba

02-13-2005, 01:04 AM

People around community understand the theory that a green light means we're prolly going to something that's time critical, and they should get the heck out the way.

I agree with alot of the points made in here, with both sides.....

I'm sure everyone understands the theory of seconds count. I sure do. If it makes the difference of having some knob doin 45km/h vs having the same person pull over - I'd rather have the lights.

I like what Toxic said....I think it summed it up pretty good.

Some guys shouldn't have them; the same guys that shouldn't drive the pumper.

Personaly I have one mounted on my dash (for compassion towards it instead of having it burried in my backseat where I can assure you I wouldn't bother taking the time to *SAFELY* find it and use it when I would need it)

I've used it twice in the three years I've been on the department.
Both times I've been away from town and we've had guys on scene screaming for manpower.

Overall I think they should be available to firefighters, but at the discression of the cheif. I didn't get one till my probation was over.

mutts252

02-16-2005, 12:52 PM

well here's my two bits worth...

whether or not there's courtesy lights involved, some guys will always drive like they think they're michael schumacher. in cases like that, i'd say it's still better to have a light - a means of warning the poor people in front of mr speed demon, to tell them to move on over or risk getting trampled.

the key is to always be safe - even if it's the biggest damn fire in history, and people are trapped, DRIVE LIKE A SANE PERSON. if you slide off the damn road and roll your vehicle, you're just messing the whole situation up worse than it already was - because now the guys have to come and save *your* stupid ass, too.

sheepishly, i will admit that i slid my car into the ditch when responding to a call this summer. it was rainy and shitty out, the roads were oily and slick, i had the adrenaline pumping, and i took a corner too fast for my own good. i didn't roll, thank christ, but it was a fucking expensive repair job (cracked the radiator, windshield washer pump, fan cover, body damage, and mildly bent part of the rear suspension). i learned my lesson the hard way on this - but it could have been a much harsher lesson. i walked away without a scratch, and all was (relatively) well.

ARRIVE ALIVE - DON'T BE STUPID. IT'S NOT AN INVINCIBILITY LIGHT.

back to the light issue, though - they can be an invaluable time-saving device if used properly, and people know what they mean (and actually move over). and we all know how critical those few seconds can be, especially in rural settings with ambulances 20 to 30 minutes out...

Buckster

06-19-2005, 01:20 PM

Here, no lights, and contrary to belief, no 4-ways.....to be honest, I dont really see the need...not in my area anyway

MFDFF33

06-19-2005, 03:41 PM

I know for our area, Our MLA wants to try and push the NB gov't to reconsider and get courtesy lights, but I doubt it'll happen. Just reading some of the threads posted I think that's why we don't have them LOL.

Punctualdeer

06-19-2005, 04:58 PM

fireman-911

06-19-2005, 06:23 PM

There was a study done in NB I think that they went against allowing us to use lights!!

You are 100% right on that... and personally, I hope that they don't allow us to have lights. Some people will just go crazy!

ehetu

06-20-2005, 11:12 AM

In Quebec, i never hearded that except in the tread in the forum for few province. That all i can say.

Not sure what you mean there, PD... but the trial was in Bécancour and the report recommended the use of green flashing courtesy lights for personal vehicles (check http://www.aqpvp.org for details). Prior to that ... before my time ... red lights were authorized.

I know this topic is a real dead horse (MODERATOR: feel free to kill this thread) ... but opponents are generally those who have no trouble getting to the scene and proponents are those who do. This can be addressed by departmental policy -- if you don't need it, don't use it. And as for the yahoos... there are laws. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to be stuck behind a few kilometers of traffic or behind a slow-moving vehicle on a mountain road when dispatched to an MVA with trapped occupants....

edmond

fireman-911

06-20-2005, 03:38 PM

To be quite honest Edmund, but I've had problems getting to both the hall & the scenes, but to be honest with you, I don't think a light would have made any difference. I have been in a fire truck where a vehicle does not move out of the way - lights & sirens - as well, my old department, they were involved in two MVA's where the other vehicle "thought they could make the turn" or "I thought they where going to other way".

So, I know that I would be responsible if I was assigned a light or I'm not even sure that I would want to have one in my vehicle. I also konw, and I'm sure it's been said before, there are a lot of people who would go crazy and think they are unbreakable.

my 2 cents!

Oh, to add something as well, I know that everyone says that this has been beaten & talked about too much, but I think it's healty to have a conversation regarding something important like this! Maybe something constructive might happen!