Quints

[rescuechris]

I'm curious to find out everyone's opinions on quints. It's not quite an engine, not quite an aerial... In small depts. I can see how it would make sense to save some money and put 2 trucks into 1. In larger services (Vancouver) where the money is somewhat there does it make sense? If for example the ladder needs to be serviced, then the whole vehicle is taken out of service thus removing a pump from service. Same goes if the pump needs to be serviced.

Another thought that comes to mind is staffing. If the apparatus was being used for both aerial and pumping operations simultaneously, you'll need to have 2 operators for the same vehicle. Does that mean you'll add an extra guy to the rig or will you pull someone else off the engine?

This is just my opinion and in no way reflect the actual SOP of any department, I'm just looking to start up a conversation.

[TruckCo11]

Please, don’t take this statement wrong, but they suck. I don’t mean the quint itself, but the concept. I have seen, and I am able to understand why a department would want to buy a quint, but I will always think its an ill-conceived idea.
In my opinion, all you get with a quint, is a half-ass engine, as well as a half-ass truck. Ladder storage is limited because of the tank and, at the same time hose space is lost due to the stick. The only reason I can understand is the cost; oh wait-quints are expensive too. Dog gone, there I went and blew my own statement apart about the rig, as opposed to the concept.

I don’t like quints, because in every instance I have seen them used, they are manpower killers. St. Louis, Richmond, VA, and several smaller department around me have embraced quints. In every single case, the quint was used to cut staffing practically in half. Cities often see it as some kind of ‘wonder’ tool, or a two for one deal. They see it as an opportunity to remove two firefighting companies, and replace them with one. That is a concept that is very dangerous, and puts lives in jeopardy.

We had two quints for about 8 years here, and they were a pain in the a$$. Both of those rigs were cumbersome, slow, lacked compartment space, and very difficult to maintain. In fact, the mechanics at our shops were the most vocal about getting those rigs out of service. They were very unreliable.

I’m not quite sure what else to say about them. I realize they do have a purpose, but in my professional experience, I can’t see it.
I would check and see exactly how much money you think you would save. Some bare bones quints I have seen are now well over 1 million dollars. (US of course) The engines we are currently buying are around 300,000, and I believe that our trucks are close to 500,000. Don’t take those numbers as fact, as there are a lot of variables that are involved.

[LFD_FF17]

Edmonton bought 2 quints in the 90;s and used them as Aerials. As in they did not replace a Pumper and a Aerial they just replaced the aerial. Now all of the Ladders they buy have a pump and maybe a booster tank i am not sure. The quints from before and new ladders operate as 4 man Ladders while the other older aerials are still just 2 man aerials with no pump



In Lacombe our Tower has a pump and some hose on it so it can operate as a Pump. However the Pump is the second out truck right behind it, the Tower will get there first and the Pump will establish a water supply then tag into the tower

[smoke286]

We are using our Quint in the same way here, strictly as an aerial. I think most cities now realize that if you double the role of a very expensive piece of equipment like a quint they have to be replaced much more often, in short it doesn't save any money

[hrecruit]

we have about 6 I think 2 new coming in but depending on what the call is 2 of them could end up going to a call with an ariel and a tact and an engine so what I am saying is the snot is ran out of some of them lol.

[DeputyMikey]

We have a 1997 E-ONE quint. We call it Aerial-1. That's mainly what we use it as is an aerial truck. It does have a 6,000Lpm pump on it and a booster tank, however; is not very manouverable down narrow streets or in tight parking lots. Other than the manouveribility we seem to like it.

Go to this link

http://www2.wetaskiwin.ca/fire/

Click on apparatus.

That's our Aerial.

Mike

[grahamswain]

In the uk we dont have Quints, we have turntable tadders, all they carry is 2 BA sets, a few lengths of hose a few other bits and manned by 2 guys, thats it. you will see alot more Ariel ladder Platforms, but again, they dont have a water tank. and are manned by 2 guys. They are alot more versitial than the Turntable ladders, but take longer to set up.

[irsqyu]

All of our 6 front line pumps(6) are either Pumper/Rescues(4) or Quints(2). We also run a 100' Aerial with Quint capabilities. The two quints have a 55' ladder and run mainly as a pump/rescue also as they have a full set of hydraulic tools.
If you look at the pics there isn't much difference in size between the quint and the pump/rescues. In our area most of the newer housing is situated on small lots, the eaves are almost touching.
One of the best uses for the quint is to use the ladder as a water tower for exposures, nozzles are all remotely controlled as are the deck guns on the pump/rescues. We also carry a full set of high angle gear on both our quints and the aerial as they can be used for lifting stretchers etc.
Basically our quints are run as pumps with the ladder just being an extra piece of equipment at the scene if required.

[bestcoast]

We have 13 front line Quint's in Vancouver (thats two of them in my avatar). I'll take our Engine's and Ladder's over the quint's anyday.........................BC................. ......

[oldarffer]

The engines on my job come in at 500k and a straight stick aerial comes in at 830k. We took delivery of a quint a couple of years ago for 1000k (thats a million). The truck is very heavy, cumbersome and not staffed adequately to be an engine company or a full ladder company.

If a department is going to cough up the bucks for an aerial, why rob the guys of 25' of ladder. In order to have a lighter (tongue firmly planted in cheek), more manoueverable quint, you have to go to a single axle and a single axle chassis will typically only allow a 75' stick. Unless your operators are very well trained, intimately versed in the operational capabilities and shortcomings of their rig, and given alot of lever time, they will have a tendancy to come up short. For less money why hamstring yourself? Only makes sense to a beancounter if you ask me!!

[bestcoast]

Only makes sense to a beancounter if you ask me!!

Your exactly right there oldarffer......Another downside on our's is the 150 gallon tanks!!!....useless!!!...........They wanted to keep them all to single axle so the booster tank's couldn't be more than 150 gs....................BC..................

[DeputyMikey]

BC, one our quint we have 400-500 gal of water on a single axel. Check out the pic I posted on the other page. The GVW says 51,000 ish. We have to be at least that. Thing sits heavy.


Mike

[bestcoast]

BC, one our quint we have 400-500 gal of water on a single axel. Check out the pic I posted on the other page. The GVW says 51,000 ish. We have to be at least that. Thing sits heavy.


Mike

Well for whatever reason we have 13 of em with 150 gallon tanks and 75 ft sticks.......useless all around......:mad: .....................BC.................

[BCFFFV]

Well for whatever reason we have 13 of em with 150 gallon tanks and 75 ft sticks.......useless all around......:mad: .....................BC.................


I'll second that! Vancouver is supposed to get new Engines soon.....Sometime this decade I hear.

[bestcoast]

Here's a pic of one deputyMikey, not sure of the GVW of them cuz we don't have one at my hall. BCFFFV next month bro for the first Engine to arrive............................BC..............

[ve2vfd]

Montreal FD doesn't use quints... we have a few leftovers from the pre-merger but they are running as ladder units only, their pumps and tanks are condemned.

Pat

[FLASHOVER05]

Alot of time's I've heard this story.... Don't take four things and make it one... Similar to a Swiss Army knife, you can chop down a tree becuz you have a saw!?! you can't open a bottle (Not very well at least) becuz you have the corkscrew.... And Along those same lines, a combination cutter spreader is usually not the greatest at either if put to compare against those that do either one or the other.

When it all boils down to it, a quint just can't compare to a pump, a rescue, a ladder or any other type of truck independently!

[oldarffer]

Does this mean that a well involved car fire is a 2 alarmer? I am stunned by the stupidity of the quint concept. We now have an idea of what would happen if a poodle and a rabbit became amourous. Happy Valentines Day. Hop hop woof.

[bestcoast]

Does this mean that a well involved car fire is a 2 alarmer?

LOL..not a second alarm but you'll more than likely be laying a 2 1/2 to a hydrant for more water. Sometimes even at dumpster fires which we get tons of you need to take a hydrant. The quint concept wasn't thought through and they were a waste of money IMO. Not a good fit for our city. The quints keep getting older so soon they will be hopefully replaced with more Engines and some more 100+ ft Ladders and another tower would be nice around the Mt. Pleasant area..................BC.................

[rescuechris]

If I wasn't clear in my first post, I'm all against quints, BUT in places like ve2vfd mentioned (I'm using Montreal cause I'm from there) where thy already have aerials with pumps and tanks, why not use them while you can? Put a couple of lengths of hose on there and some water in the tank. You never know when you'll need that extra bit.

The ultimate solution is to pour copious amounts of money into all FD's so that they are properly staffed and addequately equipped with quality apparatus. But I must be dreaming.

[irsqyu]

Quints do have their uses, if you look at my previous post we have 55' quints with 400 gallon water tanks, we mainly use them as Pumpers but it is useful to have the ladder to help cover exposures in our newer communities where the eaves of the homes are about a foot apart. Also by having 2 of our pumps with the smaller ladder as an extra tool we have the capability of having extra water towers for a larger fire. Keep in mind we also run a full size 105' ladder for those times we need a real aerial. Our quints are not too much different to drive and handle than our pump/rescues. I believe the 75' quints would be what you are describing, usually a tank that is too small, too much weight and a ladder that won't do much as far as aerial ops go except as a water tower. See example of the homes squished together in the new subdivisions nowadays