Rescue tools

[mudflap]

We have ordered a new set of hydraulic tools. We went with Amkus. Getting speeway cutter 2 spreader rams and a bunch of other stuff. What does your dept. have and why did you pick them. We tried both Holmatro and amkus.We all prefered the amkus so it was an easy decission. We take delivery around May 8. The whole dept. can't wait untill they arrive. We are replacing an old combi tool.It is mid to late 70's vintage. Stepping up a long way.I will post a pic when they come in

[Gungho_015]

We have ordered a new set of hydraulic tools. We went with Amkus. Getting speeway cutter 2 spreader rams and a bunch of other stuff. What does your dept. have and why did you pick them. We tried both Holmatro and amkus.We all prefered the amkus so it was an easy decission. We take delivery around May 8. The whole dept. can't wait untill they arrive. We are replacing an old combi tool.It is mid to late 70's vintage. Stepping up a long way.I will post a pic when they come in


I have a post in here wondering about auto ex equipment.
Why did your department choose Amkus over Holmatro?

[irsqyu]

I have a post in here wondering about auto ex equipment.
Why did your department choose Amkus over Holmatro?

Take a look at the specifications for all of them, the Holmatro 4000 series is by far the most powerful. The cutting force for the Holmatro cutters is 208, 000 pounds, the max cutting force for Amkus cutters is 72,000 punds, big difference. You did mention you needed maximum cutting power for the metals found in modern vehicles. BTW I don't sell em, just use them!

[Roadwarrior]

Not True irsqyu....both of these tools operate at 10,500.
The difference that you quote is where the cutting force is measured. Note that the Holmatro specifies that their max. force is in the cutting notch which is true, but measured next to the pivot pin. It's all basic physics and a numbers game. Put them both side by side on any vehicle and they will both do the job.

[irsqyu]

Not True irsqyu....both of these tools operate at 10,500.
The difference that you quote is where the cutting force is measured. Note that the Holmatro specifies that their max. force is in the cutting notch which is true, but measured next to the pivot pin. It's all basic physics and a numbers game. Put them both side by side on any vehicle and they will both do the job.


Maximum cutting force is just that, "MAXIMUM" cutting force, check the specs, 208,000 lbs as compared to 72, 000. big difference. I would assume that the Amkus MAX cutting force would also be at the notch just because that is where the max cutting force is on any tool.

http://products.holmatro-usa.com/details.asp?fid=cut&tid=4050nct

http://www.amkus.com/cutters_compchart.asp (http://www.amkus.com/cutters_compchart.asp)

[Gungho_015]

I hope that is not the only reason why you bought the tools. If it is, cool, but I will personally be looking at weight, how the handle, connections and as well as usability. Sure power is good, but its not everything.

[irsqyu]

I hope that is not the only reason why you bought the tools. If it is, cool, but I will personally be looking at weight, how the handle, connections and as well as usability. Sure power is good, but its not everything.

Well I didn't buy them, but it was certainly thought out by those that did. Our City has been in the International Extrication Challenges since it's inception, we have hosted it three times. We are talking competitors from around the world. Holmatro has proven to be the best, for ease of operation as well as power. You initially mentioned wanting to purchase tools so that you could deal with the new technologies and metals such as boron steel and Titanium. Why would you not buy the strongest on the market. Also take a look at the "core" technology, it is much safer as the high pressure line is inside the low pressure line. On a traditional tandem hose setup a pinhole leak in the 10,500 psi line can cut your arm off. With the core system if the high pressure hose develops a pinhole leak it just goes into the low pressure area and neutralizes. Buy what you want just do your homework.I bet you will find the majority of larger municipalities are using Holmatro because it is the best at the moment.:)

[DCCHam]

We carry Hurst just for the fact that both of our neighboring departments use Hurst. It's much better on scene for us when we can all run the same gear off the same fittings and pumps. ;)

[ndvfd_ff33]

I know my old dept just got a new set of tools. I'll give the name as soon as I get a couple photo's from the old man.

[Roadwarrior]

Ok, let's see if I can de-bunk some of the statements made about cutting force.

First of all, hydraulic tools work on a very simple concept of transmitting forces through a fluid and then into a piston, activating a lever system.
If you need more explaination, check this out.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/jaws-life.htm

The hydraulics aside, the real work is in the opening/closing system of the tool that utilizes the hydraulic pressure, whether it be a cutter, spreader or whatever.
So, lets imagine that this lever system is a teeter-totter that you find in a playground.

If you weigh x amount, then you can balance the same amount as long as both distances from the pivot point are the same.
Now, lets keep your distance from the pivot the same. If you double the weight on the other end, you can lift it as long as you double the length of the lever. BUT, you also double the distance that the weight on the other end travels. So in theory, you can keep the same weight (input power) and achieve any lifting power that you want just by adjusting the length of throws in the lever system. In addition, the time that it takes to lift will increase.

So, let's go back to our cutters. The cutting forces are not measured, but calculated by the companies. (as you can see, very easy to do)
Amkus for example, calculates their force at 90% efficiency at the notch where the cutting takes place)

One of the companies has a cutter that they are touting 281,000lbs of cutting force. This tool is operated at 5000PSI and weighs about 33 lbs. How can a 33lb tool far out perform an equally sized cutter that operates at twice the pressure? As I said, it's a numbers game. Power vs speed vs time. The only way for a fair comparison is to use the NFPA scale that requires a cutter to make several cuts of a particular size and shape of material.

And about the "Core" system. For the uninitiated, it is a system where there is one hose inside the other. Very cool indeed!! But here is a little experiment to try. Take 2 plastic straws of different sizes. It doesn't matter what the sizes are. Now blow through each of them. Which one is easier? Which one will make your pump work harder?

So look at the tools carefully, how they feel in your hands, ease of operation, cost, maintenance and service issues. It all makes a difference. And it also means that there is no "Best there is" tools.

OK...physics lesson is over....play safe!!

[irsqyu]

And about the "Core" system. For the uninitiated, it is a system where there is one hose inside the other. Very cool indeed!! But here is a little experiment to try. Take 2 plastic straws of different sizes. It doesn't matter what the sizes are. Now blow through each of them. Which one is easier? Which one will make your pump work harder?





Do you really have any knowledge of the "Core" technology to criticize it. What are you talking about 2 straws, the capacity of the hoses is the same as one is larger than the other. I have used the twin hoses for years, the core stuff is easier to connect, less apt to kink, easier to roll up. The most important part is that if you develop a pinhole leak on the internal high pressure hose the danger of the high pressure stream harming you has been negated. It is great stuff, FROM EXPERIENCE. Also the Holmatro equipment is two stage so it moves quickly when opening and closing.

Obviously you are a follower of this

"100 years of tradition, unimpeded by progress"

[Crank]

We use a lot of the Holmatro equipment and I have to say it's some great stuff. Works a lot better than anything else I've used in the past.

I've found the "core system" is a lot easier to handle/work with than two seperate lines.

[Squamish-FF]

I spent 14 years using Holmatro tools and have tried many other brands of tools as well. I know they all work well and all get the job done, but i just love using Holmatro. When I moved to Squamish, they ended up outfitting both our Rescue trucks with new Amkus tools. We have the Speedway cutter as well, and I actually do like it along with the spreaders. I still would have chosen the new Holmatro tools but alas I don't buy the equipment.

[lightning]

We use Holmatro on our dept. we bought a used set of 2000 series about 3 years ago spreaders cutters and 2 rams, works great. one of our m.a. depts uses hurst centar system also very nice. In my opinion they all make good tools or they wouldn't be in business!!

[fireman66]

This is great information on cutting power and handling of rescue tools. How many departments have used the tools in -28 C with a wind chill of - 38C. Well last week dealing with a head on crash with those temps, and snow guess what? Halmotro pump only worked to remove one door,when we went to the second vehicle to remove the roof the pump had zero pressure and the tools did not work.Apparently something broke inside the pump and tank. Extrication was with sawsall and hand tools. So anyway how are your tools in cold weather?

My two cents worth on cold weather.

[hmckay91]

How many departments have used the tools in -28 C with a wind chill of - 38C.

We have had the necessity to use our tools in extreme cold temperatures, and never have experienced a temperature related failure.

In fact we just did a three hour autox exercise with local EMS at -20c.

I would suggest that you need to conduct an investigation to identify the root causes of the apparent failure, tools and pumps (ages), prior treatment of them, firefighter training and techniques, and the maintainence schedule, will have an affect on performance and reliability.

As a note "wind chill" does not affect inanimate objects, other than change the rate at which they cool to the ambient air temperature.

[irsqyu]

If you check out the Holmatro website, most of the tool specs say the temperature range is -20c to +55c

http://www.holmatro.com/rescue/en

[fireman66]

The pump is 2 years old and serviced once a year by the halmatro rep. They now tell us connect the 2nd set of hoses and connect the ends together thus circulating the oil in the pump constantly.This information comes from the halmatro rep. so I am not sure.This was also the first time it has given any problems.It was in a non heated cabnet and a 15 minute drive to the accident.
I am not sure myself why it gave problems only that it did not work when needed.