Scba

[JGallagher]

I know that every one cant wear it. But do any of you have trouble using one? Are you panicky? This is a common occurance with Fire Fighters. I know one member that is unable to use one.

[Red_Devil]

scba is a basic part of your gear that ALL firefighters should be able to wear, regardless if your a full time professional firefighter or a volunteer.

If I knew any firefighters that were paniky and didnt like wearing scba then i would honestly not go with them into a fire. They shouldnt even be setting foot on a truck, they respond to an emergency to perform emergency living saving work and part of the job is being able to put on a pack and battling the beast. IF you look at the fitness tests and occupational skills test for various dept's across the country heck across all of North America you will see a skill test to see if the applicant is capable of donning a scba and performing a search in a simulated fire room. Not being able to accomplish the set task results in automatic disqualification for the applicant. I imagine some volunteer depts do this also, if they dont then they should look into adding such a test into their admission requirements

[JGallagher]

They shouldnt even be setting foot on a truck

There is more to do on the Fire Ground then entering a building. He is fully capable of doing any other task on the Fire Ground and has proved it many times. Tell you the truth I am not sure if I could do it. I dont like hights and climbing ladders. Does that make me a bad Fire Fighter? I dont have to do it. If there are more capble persons around then I would tell the Officer in Charge. If there is no one else then it is up the ladder for me!!

[bestcoast]

Originally posted by JGallagher
There is more to do on the Fire Ground then entering a building. He is fully capable of doing any other task on the Fire Ground and has proved it many times. Tell you the truth I am not sure if I could do it. I dont like hights and climbing ladders. Does that make me a bad Fire Fighter? I dont have to do it. If there are more capble persons around then I would tell the Officer in Charge. If there is no one else then it is up the ladder for me!!

What were the qualifications to get on your job??:confused: :confused: Guys don't like wearing scba's don't like heights i'm a little confused to say the least...:confused: :confused:

[JGallagher]

Just cause I dont like hights dont mean that I am usless. I have proven my self on scence.

[bestcoast]

Originally posted by JGallagher
Just cause I dont like hights dont mean that I am usless. I have proven my self on scence.

I never said you were useless JGallagher. I'm just saying going to a fire with guys afraid of putting on scba's and other vital things would probably make it my " worst call".

[Jay74]

wow nice tie in bestcoast, yes i agree with ya on that one bud

[WFD999]

Uncomfortable is one thing that goes away with trianing and time in which breeds confidence. Panicky is a all together another case. The man behind you on a attack line is a real big part of your life line to the outside. A dead hero is just another victim. We all must be able to multi task on a incident especialy in a small volly setting what happens when push comes to shove and one must perform a high rescue in a toxic enviroment. Can anyone afford to say sorry about that and get their pants sued off. Let alone dealing with having to watch it all go bad. Take the time to work it, beat the fears the mind is powerful tool it works both ways.

[DoubleHelix]

Not being able to breath from a SCBA is totally unacceptable. Sure its nice to be good at certain things and everyone is better at something that someone isn't. But firefighting isn't just what youre great at, you have to be good at everything and capable of doing everything asked with no hesitation and no crucial mistake. SCBA's are like your best friend if youre a firefighter and its by far the best part of firefighting when you go into a building with fire and no clue where youre going.

[Red_Devil]

I agree with ya totally there HELIX

[LFD_FF17]

If your not going to use the SCBA whats the point of using any of the safety equipment? Bunker gear and a helmet don't do shit if you pass out from all the smoke. Not wearing SCBA because its not comfortable or because your paniky is like not wearing a seatbelt because its uncomfortable. If you can't over the fact you think its uncomfortable then move over and let someone who will wear it do your job. If I was an officer I wouldn't let someone who wasn't wearing a mask go near the fire. That is just unnaceptable. Think of it from the victims view too. If I was trapped I would want someone rescuing me who could get out and work on me, not someone who is breathing in all the smoke I am. Also think of it from your families view, if you are going to go into a fire you don't want someone to tell them their husband, wife, son, daughter, brother, sister, mom, or dad died because they were too stubborn to wear safety equipment.

[FireEMTGuy]

I also have to agree that if you are going to be on a department then you must be able to don a BA without hesitation.

If I were to go down in a live fire then I sure as heck would want a team capable of entering the building and taking me out.

....No using your beard to filter out smoke just doesn't cut it these days.

With all of the chemicals and such these days you would be completely useless on any HAZMAT incident, better off to stay at home....

The only problem I find is the fact that it is a bit more difficult to exhale with Scott masks as compared to MSA etc. masks.

Oh and you can be fairly sure that you will not be covered for medical if you were to develop cancer later on in life..

[Brando]

Especially is it important in a volunteer setting. You're never 100% sure who is going to show up for the calls. Everyone should be able to fulfill all tasks on scene. If only 10 guys showed up to a structure fire and 2 of them wouldnt wear ba's, theres going to be a big problem.

[BillyBlazes]

Anyone that cannot wear a breathing apparatus should not be on any fire department.
Firefighters should also not be allowed to have a beard!
If you cannot do the job, then get out.

[FireEMTGuy]

Originally posted by Billy Blazes

Firefighters should also not be allowed to have a beard!


I certianly hope that was not in response to my statement!!!

Originally posted by FireEMTGuy


....No using your beard to filter out smoke just doesn't cut it these days.




hahaha :D

[Red_Devil]

Wow im glad im not the only one who feels this way, obvisouly Gallagher opened a can a worms with this one. If you cant wear an SCBA then you dont belong on the fireground, maybe you can go to medicals but anything fire related you shouldnt be there besides to roll up hose or serve the boys some refreashments on the rehab truck

[JGallagher]

I have no trouble with th SCBA. I can wear one. It is ladders that I do not like. I dont like hights. That does not make me any less a Fire Fighter, does it?

[bestcoast]

Sorry man it's driving me nuts....it's HEIGHTS.......cheers

[firefighter9calt]

I have to agree with JGallagher. Just because there is something you can't wear a BA doesn't mean you can't be an asset on the fire ground. Ever try to change an air bottle by yourself with the pack still on your back. Because you can't do one thing doesn't mean there is not another job you can do. We have guys who can't wear BA , that don't like heights, or are not able to do medical calls or Mva's, but we don't throw them out of the Department. We have a couple guys who do nothing but run our Radio room on a call. most of the time you need someone to do the jobs that no one wants to do. Like direct traffic, change bottles,or those other jobs that everyone takes for granted. In a volunteer department you do what you have to do with the personnel you have. We have one member who is well beyond retirement age and he is still an active member. he still shows up on Sundays to wash trucks, shows up for all our meetings and responds to as many calls as anyone in our department. Your not going to find him dragging hose on scene. He runs the radio during calls which frees up someone who can drag hose or something else. Plus he can teach us younger guys a thing or two about firefighting as he probably has more experience than anyone on this site we just honured him for 55 years of Service. So don't say because a person can't do something they shouldn't be in the department.

[Red_Devil]

I totally disagree , if you cant wear an air pac then you shouldnt be on a truck responding to a fire, yes you can stay back and operate a radio, sweep the floors, or run the rehab truck but you shouldnt throw on some bunker gear and be on scene, As an IC i would'nt want to be in a position to say hey i need you to throw a BA on and be part of a RIT, no wait i know that you dont like to wear BA's so i gotta assign someone else, as IC i would like to say hey you pac up and be RIT, with no worries. Everyone on the fire ground should be 100% CAPABLE, COMFORTABLE and CONFIDENT in doing assign duties on the fire ground.

Then again maybe thats the difference between a full time professional firefighter and a volunteer.

[resqteacher]

Agreed.
Your officer or IC has enough things to worry about at a scene besides who is uncomfortable with some aspect of a relatively common firefighting operation. ie BA's or ladders.
I'm the first to admit that pump operations are not my cup of tea, but I realized early on that we all need to be capable of filling any spot at a scene (especially in the volly ranks!) So I worked on it until I was comfortable.
That ff with BA issues needs to wear one all the time. He should put one on when he gets to the hall on training nights and do everything with it on until he is comfortable. If he still can't shake it then he would be a welcome addition to the radio room as far as I'm concerned. There are lots of jobs that aren't associated with the fire scene that need to be done too.
Somebody has to run to Tim's!!!!!!

[JGallagher]

Originally posted by bestcoast
Sorry man it's driving me nuts....it's HEIGHTS.......cheers

What if I just say high places!!

[remya]

We do have to keep in mind that this a volly section. In a perfect world everyone on a department would be proficient in all aspects of the fire service, this may not always be the case.

We (our particular hall) for the first time in quit a while have a full roster and only now can we be somewhat picky as to the abilities of the new members. Not all departments are this lucky. If your numbers are low you are more likely to take someone that may not be able to perform certain tasks such as wearing a BA...is this a perfect scenario, no. It is the reality of the volly service, take who you can...or contend with insufficient numbers.

[bestcoast]

Originally posted by JGallagher
What if I just say high places!!

Sound's good;)

[scoop422]

If you can't wear SCBA get out of the way for the guy who can. If there is a rescue in a structure fire, the first guy has to get in there and do it. You can't wait for a guy who can. Even working exterior. What if there is a chemical fire and every person inside or out needs one?

[TiSme]

WOW!!!!! Talk about a run away fire ....

There has been a lot said through out this thread. In an ideal world all the halls would be professionally manned 24 - 7 - 365 and only the best equipment would be in them. In reality .... If your municpality can aford it them you have some level of professional fire fighter rosters. If they can't then HOPEFULLY they can at least afford a hall and equipmetn for volleys.

But even volleys have to ensure both public safety and our fellow bother or sister safety. We do more damage then good if we can not operate as an effective force.

Yes some people in the volley ranks can not do certain things be it wearing SCBA, heights, driving, etc.

Yes many volley ranks have trouble staffing with the best of the best to a full roster and have to suppliment with the best we can get.

But ........ when we do that we have to ensure there are guidelines. We (the hall I'm at) will work with a person to help them over come anxiety with relation to what we do and the equipment we use. If they can over come it with our help and be comforatble with it then they will be on the grounds, if they can't then we will use them where we can but they will not be an active member on the grounds. This is for both the safety of the people we are there to help and our own.

As a volley dept we will have people who can't do everything we need to as a firefighter on the fire ground. But we will also not put that person on the fire ground, and they know that. If that means we don't have the man power for a certain size of fire when we respond then we call mutual aid .... that's what they are therefore.

We handle more then just fire and hazmat type calls and we can use people who would not be effective on the fire ground in those situations if they are an effective fit there.

But SAFETY is first and foremost in everything we do. When it comes to the fire ground. You have to be able to effectively handle what ever needs to be done. You never know what will be required of you until it's all over and we go through a debrief after the call.

Let's be safe out there and everyone comes home!!!!

[wilderness]

THOSE WHO CAN AND THOSE WHO CAN NOT....

You can not wear a scba becasue your not comfortable wearing it
---- you can not
You can,t climb a ladder because your afraid of heights
---- you can not
You don,t like to work on scene as hard as other fire fighters because you are lazy
---- you can not
You won,t pull your share because of a bad back
---- you can not

you want to be a fire fighter and answered yes to one of these
---- you can not

[Red_Devil]

NICELY put wilderness, you cant be a firefighter if you cant do all of those tasks

[resqteacher]

EXACTLY my point Wilderness.
we had a few "alpha" males like that at OFC

haha

[WFD999]

OK folks I think its pretty clear that if you cant do the job dont put on the gear. But Im gunna throw a little moderation into the mix. We are talking about a "volunteer" fire service. I dont know everybody's SOP's out there but I do know mine. Yes we would not let that person into a incident area. But we would allow that person to be an auxicllary. and if that person showed the right attitude towards the service, I as a trianing officer may want to take the extra time to work with that person so they could put on a BA. Like I said in a earlier post that with trianing and time that breeds confidence. Its getting tougher and tougher to get volunteers these days. And from were I am sitting we have to think outside the box. Im not saying take any two legs and heart beat that comes your way. Just slow down a little and look at what you have got and work within your system to improve it. The volunteer fire fighting world isnt ther same as it was 30, 20, 10 or even 5 years ago.

[Red_Devil]

Being a full time professional I agree that in order to work at that level you do need to do ALL aspects of the job. The thing is, is if volunteers wont that same respect and be compared on an equal level then they ALL on a volunteer dept have to be able to do ALL aspects of the jobs as well, until then the public will always compare. I also agree that if a volunteer member is weak in scba then you should work with them until they feel more confident in wearing the ba. But how long do you work with them until they feel comfortable? sometimes its just to get over it? or maybe someone has that fear that they can never get rid of .

[WFD999]

RedDevil could you tell me what ALL aspects are from your point of view. Is that basic firefighting or does that include. High angle rescue, Haz Mat, Extrication, Full blown fire preventon, Medical Co-Responce. Im in a small town of 1800 20 km from other departments. We are totaly unpaid and all have our regular jobs to pay the rent. So where is that mythical respect line from the public. We do the basics some fire prevention and have MCR program. No Haz Mat or extrication ( 2 sets of tools 20 km either direction) or high angle. We also have fund raising to do. With a TIC at lets say $20,000 that is about half our entire yearly budget. We read the trade publications and are aggressive with education. We try very hard to give a quality service to our community. So if the public in our community does not respect us for doing the very best we can that would be a real kick in the balls. I know some pro's and its a mix some will say F&*^in volunteers. While some will treat us as equals and thats all coming out of the same pro dept.

[TiSme]

Hmmm ...... "ALL" is a pretty big blanket of coverage. So from that, if I was a standard community resident I would believe that "ALL" professional firefighters can do "ALL" aspects of any job a fire department maybe called to do.

That means:

ALL firefighters are Emergency dive certified.
ALL firefighters are High angle certified.
ALL firefighters are Haz Mat certified.
ALL firefighters are Urban Search and Rescue certified.
ALL firefighters are Arson investigation certified.
ALL firefighters have Emergency Medical certification.
ALL firefighters have extrication certifcation.
ALL firefighters have trench rescue certification.
ALL firefighters have specialized training on Oil or Gas well head firefighting.

etc, etc, etc.

Yes I am going over board!!

Let's be resonable here. As volunteer depts we TRY to make the requirments and skill levels of the pro's but we are still volunteer depts. We do the best we can with what we have an we strive to do it as safely as possible within this line of work. In a small town I would rather have a volley dept show up quickly, and do what they can do with the training an skill set they have, when things go wrong then have to wait 30mins to several hours for a pro depatment to arrive from a major center. This is a basic fact of life. There will always be pro's and there will always be places where that's not feasible and instead there are volleys.

We will always have miss informed people who think that it's "just a bunch of farmers" (using prairie terminology). As far as respect goes. There are probaly some volleys out there that do this job seeking respect, we all have bad apples, even in the pro's. But most volley's (at least the ones I know) do this to give back to the community and help make there community safer for everyone. Not for respect.

[WFD999]

TiSme. Exactly Im pickin up what your layin down. Did the 4H public speaking EH. :) Said it much better than I did.

[wilderness]

Lets be honest the general public doesn,t and wouldn,t exspect a vollie dep. to be doing a lot of what you mentioned now we have
15 stations of whom 3 are fulltime. of the three that are full time only one does all of what you said or at least 80% of it,

But on a vollie department "my ass is on the line" there is basic things that each fire fighter must know and beable to do...
SCBA / heights at least climb to 100 ft. / pull hose / drive trucks
and beable to think on your feet......

you can,t do the basic then don,t be a firefighter..............
i don,t want some guy who panics with a BA. to be on my station............. sorry thats how i feel and i think most of you do also.. or should...... it all boils down to saftey............ the firefighters.........

[wannabe]

Bottom line... do YOU want to go in without knowing what the *bleep* you're doing?? Not I.

It doesn't matter whether they call you vollie or career... you're all risking alot out there. I choose to bring the best ammo with me possible... knowledge and experience.

Besides, the list TiSme wrote isn't all that hard to get.

[Rescue78]

How about a doctor in the emergency room who doesn't like to do stitches.

A cab driver who can't turn left. But he does a great job at driving in any other direction!!!!

Bartender who doesn't serve beer. She mixes great drinks, but doesn't like serving beer.

A mechanic who can't do brakes.

Should I carry on?

An officer should not have to wonder what you can and can't do before he gives you a task. He/she should be able to point a finger at the first firefighter and expect the task done.

If one cannot wear SCBA, then he can't perform fire suppression, search and rescue, ventilation, confined space rescue, vehicle fire suppression and so on. Then how can that person be called a firefighter if he can't perform those basic tasks.

It is unfortunate that something as out of their control as fear comes between them and their dream but they cannot be called a firefighter. That being said, I'm sure they can be very helpfull and appreciated as part of their department.

[Michael13]

Ok how bout this. I am 6'6" and weigh 320 pounds. I can wear an SCBA no problem it doesnt bother me, and I have on many calls. But with me and gear i'm topping out at close to 400 pounds fully geared!!! Chief says he would rather not have me and a partner on a ladder and if rescuing victim, since the weight limit woulkd be exceded. Does this make me a incapable firefighter. I have been on the ladders, on roofs, and I hate heights, but I can still do it. I would rather not, but if an officer says get up there, they dont ask twice. So my only problem is I weigh too much. So is it allright for me to another job, since I shouldnt be on ladders?

[JGallagher]

Originally posted by Michael13
Ok how bout this. I am 6'6" and weigh 320 pounds. I can wear an SCBA no problem it doesnt bother me, and I have on many calls. But with me and gear i'm topping out at close to 400 pounds fully geared!!! Chief says he would rather not have me and a partner on a ladder and if rescuing victim, since the weight limit woulkd be exceded. Does this make me a incapable firefighter. I have been on the ladders, on roofs, and I hate heights, but I can still do it. I would rather not, but if an officer says get up there, they dont ask twice. So my only problem is I weigh too much. So is it allright for me to another job, since I shouldnt be on ladders?


You are fully capable. The ladder thing is more of a safety concern then any thing else. That is the way I see it any way.

[Rescue78]

Michael13

One thing that I admire in you comment is your abillity to admit you are unconfortable with heights.

Like you say, you are not comfortable doing it but you do it anyway. I have no problem with that and in fact, I'd rather see that then somebody that is in denial of that discomfort.

What I have a problem with is someone who CAN NOT use an SCBA or work from a ladder. It is a basic firefighting skill.

Cheers

[Michael13]

Ok, I dont have a fear of heights, but I have a fear of falling. If i look over the edge or its windy or icy up top, that scares me a bit.

[JGallagher]

Well I think I am getting over my fear of hights. I was up on top of a 8 story building the other day and was alright. I think it the climbing of the ladder that is my problem.

[Toxic]

Either some of these posts are from people who live in really big communities or just are not looking at the big picture here. Let me start by saying that I can do any job on the fireground. My inability to do things is not my motivator for this post.

Our department finds it hard enough to keep a full roster as it is. If we were a carreer department we could be very picky and hire only persons qualified as fire medics. However we are not.

In the past I have worked with EMR/EMT's that are fantastic at that role. However they are not as strong on the fire side. If I were in need of medical assistance I would want them to work on me and not someone who is good with a BA.

My brother has been a volunteer for 25+ years but does not do well with medical calls. At MVA's he does traffic control. However he is always the first guy to slap on a BA and go into a fire. He's the one I want trying to pull my fat arse from a burning house.

Someone posted that a volunteer fire department wouldn't be expected to.... But the hard reality is that we potentially have to respond to all that stuff. Isn't that even more reason to broaden our horizons and hire persons who specialize in certain areas. we are fortunate enought to have 2 paramedics and 2 hazmat techs in our department. Two of our guys are also carreer firefighters from Winnipeg.

[WESTEY]

This is an obvious Volunteer/pro question. If your rural Canada you have a limited pool of applicants. Big cities have their pick of the crop...The public should be happy to have people doing our kind of work period.......

[wilderness]

It doesn,t matter if you are fulltime or a vollie, woman or a man ..... the job requires the same skills....
i know that i would rather have 10 guys who can do it all, then have 20 and only a few feel comfortable with all aspects of the job, it boils down to saftey mine and yours... if you were on a fulltime station and didn,t like to wear a ba you would be on the street..........................

[Red_Devil]

here here wilderness!!!, i agree with ya bud, a firefighter is someone who can perform all necessary skills and without a doubt! confidence breeds performance, i wouldnt want to be in an officers shoes at a scene knowing that you got a mix match of skill sets

[hrecruit]

In the Academy I graduated from there were a couple of incidents that involved students. Any student that did not complete certain tasks being all !!! were failed. just like that they sent you packing with tuition in one hand and tissue in the other. one incident involved me and another guy we got on scene to a house fire( mock house fire but real heat) main floor possible victim inside I took the leed my buddy follows right. soon as we get in he can't see 1 inch in front of him plus the noise the BA was making freaked this guy out so we get too a room and I say wait here I'll check it out so I leave him check the room out while he is at the door. so when I get back to the entrance of the door where is my buddy ? gone so I think holy shit did this guy pass out on me or what so I start sweeping the floor like crazy to the point where I'am wondering where the hell am I at. by luck I grab our line we brought in or in other words my line and as I begin too follow it out my radio keys in asking me to exit building now. He left me high and dry because of his fear. The whole time there is a instuctor in there watching this which we also did not know. nothing would of happened of course with the instuctor watching over me but he still let me alone too see what I would do. Thing is this guy is now driving snow plows for the city. if you want to be a firefighter you do have too know and be able too do your work. regardless of whatever fear you have. but think If my situation was not under a controlled situation like mine then I could of become extemely disorientated and passed out etc. them you got team members in there when they don't have too be looking for you because you buddy dropped the ball. A little off the topic I guess and I really hope you guys can think outside the box on these fears. you guys can get over your different fears believe it or not and I really hope you do beat them just remember bro's fear is half the battle and don't let it stop you...
good luck guys and keep us updated....

[wilderness]

OK... This past weekend i had the honour of being able to get to the Ontario Fire College... now twenty of us taking module B trainning.... now we have two ladies the rest guys..... we all had the same stuff to do....no bitching no crying.... it was something that had to be done... we did it... not one person there was afraid to climb the ladder or wear a BA or searched the buildings, there was no fire just blacked out face mask...this weekend we go back and we have live fire suppression and lots of heat.. i have no doubt that all of us will do what needs to be done.....
E EVERONE
G GOES
H HOME
S SAFELY

T TOGETHER
E EVERYONE
A ACHIEVES
M MORE

B BEFORE
E EVERYTHING
S STOP
A AND
F FIRST
E EVALUATE
R RISK'S


THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE ALL WANT TO GO HOME
NOW THE TWO GUYS WHO ARE IN THE HOUSE RUN INTO TROUBLE AND THE TWO GUYS OUTSIDE DON'T LIKE BA'S NOW WHAT
I WANT TO GO HOME "I HAVE A WIFE AND KIDS"

[Red_Devil]

thats my point, 2 guys go in and run into trouble, then you have 2 guys who dont like to wear ba's sitting outside, no good cause they "arent comfortable wearing ba's" they maybe good at other stuff, but at a firecall, hand out some coffee or refreshments or standby with a medical bag, but dont get a bunker suit on and stand around and jsut wanna look cool

[FireEMTGuy]

In a Professional FF situation you must be able to do all the skills. I would however consider someone, who say is not comfortable of using a BA, to be on a Volly department (depending on # of available applicants) to be an AUX member. I would like to have the amount of guys to staff a platoon with 100% able firefighters, that means the basics of your 1001's, not necessarily have them 1001 trained, but be able to perform just as well (thoery aside) as someone who was. Get what I mean?

In regards to this situation, which is a whole other thread on itself..


Originally posted by hrecruit
.....as soon as we get in he can't see 1 inch in front of him plus the noise the BA was making freaked this guy out so we get too a room and I say wait here I'll check it out so I leave him check the room out while he is at the door. so when I get back to the entrance of the door where is my buddy ? gone so I think holy shit did this guy pass out on me or what so I start sweeping the floor like crazy to the point where I'am wondering where the hell am I at......but think If my situation was not under a controlled situation like mine then I could of become extemely disorientated and passed out etc.

When conditions are as said above then IMHO you DO NOT leave your partner under any circumstances. IMHO you must remain in visual distance from your partner at ALL times. Regardless of whether you are in a clear house and your partner is around the corner or you are in a smoke filled enviroment, you should be able to keep visual or physical contact with your partner at all times. If he can't/won't go in, you don't go in. Just my .02.

[Red_Devil]

yes i agree, you were wrong to leave your partner when he was paniking, what if he went down when you turned your back?? and you thought he had left? anyways im sure your just a youngster, but lesson learned, you learn something new everyday on this job my son, next time if you encounter another classmate like this, calm him down, if he doesnt then its time to get out and send another crew in, check your ego at the door

[hrecruit]

Originally posted by Red_Devil
yes i agree, you were wrong to leave your partner when he was paniking, what if he went down when you turned your back?? and you thought he had left? anyways im sure your just a youngster, but lesson learned, you learn something new everyday on this job my son, next time if you encounter another classmate like this, calm him down, if he doesnt then its time to get out and send another crew in, check your ego at the door

I guess your right in the sense that I left him first when he needed me but this room I checked the only reason he was left at the door was the room was like 6 feet by 8 feet no need for both too go in when I can have a shoulder on one wall and sweep almost the whole floor with my hand. but I totally understand what your saying in the big picture I guess I was more at fault then my buddy gor leaveing him alone. but the bastard still left me LOL. thanks it is always good to get another point of view from someone else

[Toxic]

Originally posted by Red_Devil
thats my point, 2 guys go in and run into trouble, then you have 2 guys who dont like to wear ba's sitting outside, no good cause they "arent comfortable wearing ba's" they maybe good at other stuff, but at a firecall, hand out some coffee or refreshments or standby with a medical bag, but dont get a bunker suit on and stand around and jsut wanna look cool

Agreed RedDevil. Pull some hose or something but don't be the RIT team.

The fact of the matter is that most of our calls are MVA's. This was also true at my last department. And probably most volly depts in our area.

[DFCSmash]

Well, I wish my volly pool was as deep as the one that the big departments chose from, but it isn't. So we, by neccessity, sometimes end up with members who don't have the full skill set.

I am 5'6" tall and weigh 145lbs. Probably wouldn't make the rescue squad as a full timer. Probably wouldn't get hired as a full timer. But when I had to, I did every job on the fireground or MVA scene. There are jobs I really don't like, but if it needs to be done, I did/do them when required.

We don't do EMS work here, there is a seperate service. Many of my members do volunteer with both sides. More power to them, and they have my full respect and support. Just don't ask me to do it. It's not my cup of tea. So you say that makes me unfit to be a firefighter? That's what I've been reading.

On this 20 member department I've got one member that is not comfortable wearing a B/A. He'll do it, but he's not comfortable and uses air 30% faster than anyone else. But he'll do every other job on the scene. I've got one member who hates to be more than 3 feet above the ground. Won't climb ladders. But he'll do every other job on the scene. I've got one member who is deathly afraid of water. So he won't get in the boat for water rescue. But he'll do every other job on the scene. I've got one member who hates the sight of blood and gore. But he'll do every other job on the scene.

I've got members that are VERY good in SCBA work, some are VERY good at ladderwork. Some are VERY good at ventilation. or extrication. or interior attack, or whatever. Some are just average at all of their skills. This part is just like career departments. What is different is that I've got a different size crew, with different members every time the pager goes.

My job as an officer is to do the best job with the tools available. This includes assigning the tasks at hand to those most capable. I've had one of my best interior attack guys tell me "I can't wear a pack today, because I'm so f'ing stuffed up from this cold." So I assigned someone else. At least he told me instead of packing up and then not being capable of doing the job required.

If your officers aren't capable of working with the cards they know they've got in their hand (member limitations) then how in hell will they deal with the unexpected wild cards that the incident scene will deal them?

Having said that, patient, non-judgemental training and familiarisation (read: no taunting "You wussy , my baby sister can climb a ladder") will usually result in a member that can do a task. Not always, but usually. Deep seated phobias are tougher of course, and I'm sure as hell no psychologist. So as for your member who hates SCBAs, have you worked on the small stuff. Let them wear it around the hall. Sweep the floor wearing it. Go for a walk down the street with another member who is comfortable in a pack. They will probably learn to tolerate it. Or not. And having said that, they will probably never be your best "pack guy". But they can tolerate it.

Like I said, you play the hand you're dealt. And good officers will play the hand well. So if your officers are aware of the members problem, they will deal with it in the manner they think is best. If they don't know about it, then it is YOUR responsibility to tell them. Let them worry about it. And if they assign that member with you in a situation where it will be hazardous to you or them, and you aren't comfortable with that members performance, say so and refuse to enter with them. If YOU don't care about YOUR safety, why would anyone else.

BTW, I've been on this FD for 21 years, and there has always been at least one member who couldn't do one of the jobs. And there has never been an issue with it at any call. Always had good leaders. Now I hope I can fill the boots.

[FireEMTGuy]

Well said with some excellent points! Great first post.. welcome to firehall!

:)

[wilderness]

One guy, i have no problem with that.... out of 20 no probs
now 5 guys out of twenty...... thats 25% of your force, those numbers are too high.... " COME ON " look at the job.....
if you don,t like heights and BA'S and confined spaces because your uncomfortable with it.... maybe just maybe your risking someone else's life.... besides your own......... if you don,t like height but feel good about wearing a BA, i have room for you in my hall....BA'S AND PROTECTIVE CLOTHING ARE PART OF THE FIREFIGHTERS EVERYDAY ROUTINE... if you can,t wear a BA i hope you like lung cancer......

[DFCSmash]

ok here some quick rural math: Total residents = 1300
40% are retired -520

40% don't volunteer for anything (but they bitch) -520
20 % are the volunteers for everything (coaches
Service clubs, rink committee, curling club etc. etc. 260

15% of that 260 is your maximum Emergency volunteer pool because most don't want to do it. 40 people. Split them for fire, EMS, EMO. I figure my share of the pie is 26 people. I've got 20 of 'em, and the other 6 won't show up unless they're asked. So I've gotta guess who they are. So when I get volunteers, I work with the skills they give me.

This is not scientific, but it's a pretty accurate guesstimate based on living in this community for 40 years. We as a department recieve support from (some direct, some indirect) from 90% of these residents . More of them would come forward for 4 on, 4 off, 12 hr shifts @ about $45,000.00 per year, but that's not an option here. If that was the case then you damn sure would have to be able to do it all. And do it all well, may I add. So for that reason I will accept people who volunteer and I find after some training, that they can't do it all.

Now if you show up and I find you can't climb a ladder AND you can't wear a pack AND you can't do whatever, I will strongly suggest that you should find another outlet for your volunteer service. Because I agree to do this job effectively you have to be able to do the tasks.

As for the BS lung cancer remark Wilderness, I would take it that you are never without your BA from the time your call comes in, until you're back at the hall. Yeah right. There's plenty more firefighters with breathing problems than with lung cancer. And no I don't think that either is an acceptable situation. Plenty of jobs at 99% of calls that don't require BA on scene. And further my volunteers know that the acceptable amount of smoke to eat is 0%. Thats training.

[wilderness]

It again boils down to saftey

[WFD999]

Welcome to the firehall DFCSmash.

I here where you are coming from and also are from a small department with a town of 1800. I agree with you that not all have to be able to do all jobs. Here it is, But, BA is a critical part of PPE as improtant as your boots and gloves. Being able to adapt and overcome to everyones skill set is a challenge which makes even two dumpster fires back to back totaly differnt call because of personell. And for one firefighter burning down air 30% faster so what. he's doing the job. I got smokers and some with lets say a lower center of gravity. That burn air too. All that said as a officer I cannot in good conscience put one of my guys in harms way without protecting them the very best I can. Which includes thier mind set when it comes to safety, PPE and therefore BA.

[DFCSmash]

Not enough explaining on my part. The guy that burns 30% more air, took 2 years to get that comfortable. Now we are working with his breathing. But now he wears it. That took about a year of baby steps. Hope to have his consumption down. But if we had thrown him out after 2 or 3 training sesions, we'd be missing a dedicated hard working firefighter.

The reason I don't want him using up his air that much faster is obviously, whoever is in with him has to come out earlier as well. So my attack team would have a shorter time in the hot zone. So until we get his air consumption better, his "on-duty" pack time is curtailed. And his training time is greater.

My ladder guy is more of a challenge. Not making much progress, but I'll deal with it. Great on the ground. My water guy isn't a problem. He'll do all shore and up to waist work. I can handle that. My no gore guy runs the pump or does traffic at MVA's.

So that said I will leave it alone now. Stay safe, and just keep working with your "problem children". If they're really uncomfortable, they will likely quit themselves. Vounteers are the first to realize when their contribution to the team isn't good enough. I have no reason to want any of mine to go. Their other skills make up for their minor shortfalls.

[JGallagher]

Originally posted by DFCSmash
Not enough explaining on my part. The guy that burns 30% more air, took 2 years to get that comfortable. Now we are working with his breathing. But now he wears it. That took about a year of baby steps. Hope to have his consumption down. But if we had thrown him out after 2 or 3 training sesions, we'd be missing a dedicated hard working firefighter.

The reason I don't want him using up his air that much faster is obviously, whoever is in with him has to come out earlier as well. So my attack team would have a shorter time in the hot zone. So until we get his air consumption better, his "on-duty" pack time is curtailed. And his training time is greater.

My ladder guy is more of a challenge. Not making much progress, but I'll deal with it. Great on the ground. My water guy isn't a problem. He'll do all shore and up to waist work. I can handle that. My no gore guy runs the pump or does traffic at MVA's.

So that said I will leave it alone now. Stay safe, and just keep working with your "problem children". If they're really uncomfortable, they will likely quit themselves. Vounteers are the first to realize when their contribution to the team isn't good enough. I have no reason to want any of mine to go. Their other skills make up for their minor shortfalls.

So what you are saying is just because some one can not do one job does not mean that they can not do another.

[Red_Devil]

man we have beat this topic to a pulp, i think I can end it by simplying saying IF YOU CANT DO ONE PART OF THE JOB, THEN YOU DONT BELONG ON THE FRONT LINES OF A FIREFIGHT, ITS EITHER DO ALL OR STAY AT THE HALL AND WASH TRUCKS AND SWEEP FLOORS

[FireEMTGuy]

I don't believe you can end it there, in a professional/carrear setting (IN MOST CASES) then YES, you can simply end it there.

In a VOLUNTEER setting one must value the time and willingness of a volunteer and take them for what they are worth. No responsible captian or chief would take a member if that member could put another member in danger.

So I think if I were to "put it to an end," I would say: If your a VOLUNTEER (like the thread this topic was posted, in the first place) and can do 95% of the job without endangering others, whether it be others of the community of the crew, then welcome aboard.

Some dept's can be picky, some can't. Leave it at that and if you are one of the non community orientated slackers in a small community who believes otherwise, then PUT YOUR NAME IN!

Now-a-days everyone is all talk. We want this, we want that. If you really want something, do something about it.

[Red_Devil]

yeah your right, professional sitting it need to be worn, volunteer sitting you cant pick and choose in some communities. I only think if you wanna go around and call yourself a firefighter but your afraid of heights or wearing a pack, then dont go around calling yourself a firefighter or a hero ;) for that fact

[Fireknight]

La, la, la, la, monkey, monkey, monkey.......BOO!!!

Sorry, after five pages of posts, I just felt like joining in...;)

[iamvff]

Fireknight....I gotta tell ya....ya made me chuckle out loud.

I have been reading this debate from day one and have found it to be a very interesting debate, although somewhat repetative(sp?). I now feel I will throw my 2 cents worth into the debate (not that anyone cares, but it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to participate.)

I know from experience (My short 14 years on the VFF) that we have had many people come and go. Some of which were very good at their tasks, some of which who weren't so great at their tasks. Some could do everything, some who were only comfortable doing certain things, or were uncomfortable doing certain things ( however you want to phrase it). I do know that on our Dept. We tell ALL new recruits that this is a volunteer organization, You must be comfortable and competant(sp?) in the job you do. If you are not comfortable with a specific job, scba's for example, then make it clear to everyone your concerns and you will not be expected to do it. At any call we have there are many, many tasks to be done, all of which are equally important, so that we can accomplish whatever our goal is. Our Department chooses to accept and appreciate anyone who wishes to volunteer their time to help the community. We choose to find the strenghts in these people and build on them, as opposed to dwelling on their weeknesses. I can say that in all honesty, the biggest problems and the most dangerous positions we have been put in, have been as a result of members who think they can do anything and everything, and are to full of themselves to find the best qualified person for the job.

My personal opinion, is that if someone has had it in their heart that this is what they want to do for the rest of their lives (and you all know what I mean). There is a place for them on any fire dept., and they should be honest to their co-workers and let them know what their downfalls are so that no one is ever put in jepardy because of the arrogant no-it-all guys who end up killing people because they are to thick to admit they might have a flaw. I do wear SCBA's and I will go into a building if the situation requires. But....please, if I am ever in a compromised situation and I need someone to come in and save my ass......please do not send in a guy that is uncomfortable with SCBA's or maybe even clostrophobic, but he read this debate, and was to ashamed to admit to his dept. that he can't do it. because now both his family and my family will miss us! Be honest to your dept. and work with peoples strentghs.

La, la, la, la, monkey, monkey, monkey.......BOO!!!.....that's funny

BE SAFE!
iamvff

[wilderness]

" BY GOD BOYS I THINK WE HAVE IT"
ALL IN FAVOUR OF KILLING THIS SAY I
I
I
I
OOP'S AND I
i HAD A MOUSE IN MY POCKET THAT AGREED

[bestcoast]

Originally posted by wilderness
" BY GOD BOYS I THINK WE HAVE IT"
ALL IN FAVOUR OF KILLING THIS SAY I
I
I
I
OOP'S AND I
i HAD A MOUSE IN MY POCKET THAT AGREED

I
I
I

[MFD610]

I agree with firefighters donning BA's to a certain point!

Many smaller departments have trouble with staffing. If you have members that are uncomfortable with wearing one, being short of members your only option is to train them in its use and find other duties for them such as running the pump or accountability. In a toxic enviourment they still know how to put one on.

Now with the extra manpower it frees up other firefighters to do other important tasks, such as ventilation without being short staffed.

Once staffing levels increase, its up to the Chief to decide to cut members not willing to perform all tasks at hand.

As for entering a fire with someone uncomfortable wearing a BA? Uncomfortable and untrained are two different things. you may not want to go in with someone that is uncomfortable, but everyone has to start somewhere. What are the options? Not going in at all because there is no one to back you up?

This is the reality in the real world.

[WFD999]

What are the options? Not going in at all because there is no one to back you up?

The short answer is. yes.

Wiat for mutal aid or anther platoon or whatever your system is set up for. We should all be practiceing 2 in 2 out. I know 2 and 2 is the perfect world but NEVER go in by yourself. That is going looking for trouble. As wilderness has said it all boils down to safety. One of my first instrutors told me " A dead hero is just another victim"

Be Safe

la,la,la,al monkey monkey monkey............. BOO Too Funny:)

[wilderness]

and the debate goes on
la la la monkey monkey monkey........................boooo whoooo

[bestcoast]

Originally posted by wilderness
and the debate goes on
la la la monkey monkey monkey........................boooo whoooo

And on...and on...and on...and on....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[iamvff]

I
I
I

Be Safe,
iamvff

[WFD999]

Silence................ Listen to that! Its the monkey that went booo;) Or do you prefer a little song. Heres a little song someone wrote like sing it note for note dont worry... be happy. DOOO DOOOT DOOOT DODO DOOOOO. Sorry cant dance and to fat to fly OH crap gotta go here comes the pack of coyotes I atracked with my singin....:)