Criminal Charges

[JGallagher]

Do you think that Fire Fighters charged under the Criminal Code of Canada should continue to be a part of a department. Or applicants with records be permited? If yes what would be the limit for the charge? An if no why?

[bfrd22]

J;
I would have to think that each would have to be under it's own merrit... (Applicant must be of good moral character).

I guess if it was for something stupid they did when they were younger, who really cares. unless its one of many stupid things.

If its a case of Child or spousal abuse def not.

but if they were picked up for Drunk Driving in 1986 and they have kept thier nose clean since. Id be Ok with it, However if the same person still has a rep as a boozer I would be concerned how this would reflect on the dept.

IMO you would have to wiegh the crime with current standing, and if something happened while on duty would it reflect on the dept.

[FireEMTGuy]

If it was in their distant past, pending on the charge, and they have kept clean since then, then it would be OK on a situational person to person basis. A pardon also would go a long ways.

However if it happened reciently, or while employed by the FD regardless of whether on duty or not, then the person is obviously not one the community can trust and should not be permitted to continue as part of a public service job such as a FF/EMT etc.

Too much trust is placed upon emergency service workers to employ those with recient criminal historys.

[Red_Devil]

firefighters reflect the image of the community, i believe if an offence has occurred in the past 10yrs then they should not be allowed on a truck. Lets face it break the law and you must pay your dues even after the fact.

[JGallagher]

Well if you are a small Department, then can you afford to lose? I say it would depend on what the offecnce is and what the punishment is under the CCC.

[Red_Devil]

most offences under the CCC are serious offences as opposed to provincial offences.

[BillyBlazes]

If you have a criminal record you should not be working for the fire service.

Plain and simple!!!!

[JGallagher]

So for example as a Youth I was charged under the CCC and went to Juvi for awhile. Does that mean I cant be a FF? Or for example again, I did B&E's 15 years ago? Should that say I should not be a FF? I think that it depends of what the seriouness of the offence is and how far back that it was commited. As well if no one other then the Chief is aware of the offence then it should be to his discretion. As well just because they were charged does not mean that they were convicted!!

[bfrd22]

Again If there are offences, they need to be reviewed. I don't think being stupid in our youth should effect us in adulthood.

Maybe we look at this from a bond stand, with an "indiscretion" are you bondable?

Can't even get a job at Canadian Tire or Zellers unless your bondable.

[Leafs Fan]

Originally posted by JGallagher
So for example as a Youth I was charged under the CCC and went to Juvi for awhile. Does that mean I cant be a FF? Or for example again, I did B&E's 15 years ago? Should that say I should not be a FF? I think that it depends of what the seriouness of the offence is and how far back that it was commited. As well if no one other then the Chief is aware of the offence then it should be to his discretion. As well just because they were charged does not mean that they were convicted!!

If you committed an offence as a young offender these records are not made public after you turn 18. Now as a citizen how would you feel about a firefighter with a history of break and enters being possibly alone in your house with your belongings while you are outside ( ie. co call)? Further, a civil or criminal case goes to court that you have to attend as a witness as a result of your job, what do you think your credibility will be when the opposing lawyer brings up your own past?

[Red_Devil]

If i knew anyone who had break and enter charges against them i would dismiss them with no problems at all

[JGallagher]

Originally posted by Red_Devil
If i knew anyone who had break and enter charges against them i would dismiss them with no problems at all

Why dismiss them? Have they been conivcted? As well usally people up for those types of charges are kept in remand until there trial or sentencing.

[Red_Devil]

Alls im saying man is if you got a criminal record and trying to go fulltime dont even worry about filling out the application

[skut]

I have a conviction for driving without insurance in Ontario. Will this prevent me from being accepted as a volunteer ff? It was a matter of clerical error ( ok, stupidity on my part ). I don't think that this can ever be removed from my record. This is the only thing on my record including driving ( no traffic tickets ).

tia.

[JGallagher]

It may only disqulify you from driving the truck!! Talk to the union rep or some one there that you know that you can trust!!

[Leafs Fan]

Originally posted by skut
I have a conviction for driving without insurance in Ontario. Will this prevent me from being accepted as a volunteer ff? It was a matter of clerical error ( ok, stupidity on my part ). I don't think that this can ever be removed from my record. This is the only thing on my record including driving ( no traffic tickets ).

tia.
This is a conviction of a provincial offence and not of a criminal code offence. Huge difference. I don't see this as being any problem for you getting on a Fire Dept. unless it caused you to lose your drivers licence, then you have a problem.

[Skidz]

there also should be a way to get this cleared up with the government. I recieved a violation while trucking that was the result of a crooked boss that lied and the offence should have gone to the truck and not my license, but being crooked it went against my license because of the way he had the insurance set-up to keep him clean. I can call the MPI (manitoba public insurance) and dispute that and have it removed if I so wish. It might cost me a couple of bucks but if it was a matter of getting on with my future dreams well worth it!! Just get into touch with you insurance rep and they should be able to help you.

[mutts252]

not the happiest reply, but if you were to apply for a job with, say Toronto Fire Services and had anything on your record, you'd be turned away. a reasonably clean driving record is also required for a job there, too.

obviously, these same standards can't be used for volunteer departments - simply because in rural areas (at least where i'm a FF), the prevalence of things like DD convictions, minor offences, stuff like that is much higher. some guys on the department aren't always going to have the best past - but it doesn't mean they wouldn't be a top-rate firefighter.

as has been said... it's a character judgement, and would have to be done case-by-case in a volunteer/rural setting. as for big-city departments... i'd have to say that i agree with the TFD policy (it reflects too much on not only the department, but the city - the employer).

[FFWannabe]

I thought if you had a record you had to be pardoned from it officially before you could be hired by the fire department. I could be completely wrong and it might be just for the police force... I'm going to have to go looking for that now and see.


As for traffic convictions, those are not criminal convictions, I don't even think they're considered summary convictions, as they are under the Provincial Highway Act. I have had a couple of "instances" on my driving record and I know when I sat with two police officers for an interview for Ottawa Police Services, they said it wasn't a problem. I think it would depend what the conviction was... Mine were all speeding, until I tapped that woman from behind who decided to slam on her brakes in the middle of an intersection while she was merging into it.. no cars coming... sigh... Other offenses like drunk driving, show a serious problem with judgement, in my opinion, so that would be a tough one!

Sue :)

[firewalker2]

If you have any type of record , either when you were a juvinial or adult ,than you should NOT be allowed to be a firefighter , career or volunteer period . We as firefighters are held to a very high standard of trust in the community and we need that trust so as that we can do our jobs . How do you think the citizens would feel if there house was on fire and they were standing on the curb watching as firefighters with criminal records walked into there house . It is absoulutly unacceptable for firefighters to have any type of offences .

[mikeeps]

Originally posted by firewalker2
If you have any type of record , either when you were a juvinial or adult ,than you should NOT be allowed to be a firefighter , career or volunteer period . We as firefighters are held to a very high standard of trust in the community and we need that trust so as that we can do our jobs . How do you think the citizens would feel if there house was on fire and they were standing on the curb watching as firefighters with criminal records walked into there house . It is absoulutly unacceptable for firefighters to have any type of offences .

Do you not realize that firefighters are regular people that occasionally make mistakes? How can you hold a guy responsible for something he did let say when he was 18 and now he is 30. People change and I think that it all depends on the crime and the time elapsed. I don't think that if my house was on fire I would be thinking about a firefighters record! Keep an open mind! Everyone screws up sometime in there life, just some people get caught! Have you ever done something illegal? Seriously I think that common sense must prevail on this one!

Michael
P.S. I have a clean record! I just know that the justice system can be messed up sometimes and people should be given their chance!

[Whitewater_419]

I agree with those who say that if you've got a record, but it's far enough in the past, then it shouldn't matter.

Trying to keep the myth that firefighter's are super-citizens who do no wrong is just plain silly. You can not tell me that someone who did something stupid ten years ago (yes, even if it was grand theft or B&E) and has kept their noses clean since isn't deserving of a second chance.

IMO, as long as the crime wasn't one involving violence against another human being, then their recent efforts and actions should be taken more into account than those of the distant past.

I'm sure no one needs to be reminded that there have been firefighters - fulltime and volly, who have been charged, tried and convicted of serious offences.

No one is perfect.

[BCFFFV]

As long as it isn't related to their job duties as a firefighter I don't think it should matter. For example someone convicted of theft etc. being in people's homes wouldn't be okay. But there are many possible cases of things that could happen after being hired that shoudln't matter. Firefighters still have rights also. Usually if the record is clean before being hired it's usually not an issue but afterwards in my books it would have to be very serious.

[BCFFFV]

Forgot to mention that I think the record should be clean at time of hire.....with a chance to explain any old charges against you. Nobody is perfect.

[rescue1008]

As far as im concerned...... You do the crime you do the time. But i would have to say depending on what the charges are and if the Pardon Board will not give you a pardon for your record then it should be told to the Dept. far as im concerned. Cause if they can forgive your record so should the people you work with.

[Whitewater_419]

Originally posted by rescue1008
As far as im concerned...... You do the crime you do the time. But i would have to say depending on what the charges are and if the Pardon Board will not give you a pardon for your record then it should be told to the Dept. far as im concerned. Cause if they can forgive your record so should the people you work with.

Ah, but by that reasoning - "you do the time" - means you serve the sentance handed to you by the judge and no longer - One has to make the assumption that a human being is capable of horrendously stupid things in one part of their lives and yet incredible things in another part of their lives :)

(I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here, but personally, I really can't imagine turning someone down for a non-violent crime of five or more years ago with nothing new since then)

[firewalker2]

If you have been charged with B&E in the past the hiring commitees are going to look at it in the light that if you did it before there is a chance that you will do it again . Even if it was years ago , its not just my thinking it is the reality of the situation . there are far to many firefighters looking to get hired that have no record whatsoever that anyone with a record of any kind even one long ago is sure to be passed over .