First Decapitation - Warning Graphic Content

[FireEMTGuy]

Be advised this post contains graphic content.


Well I had my first decapitation last night… more of a partial decapitation as it sheared off his skull just above his nose. It was a single vehicle rollover on the Yellowhead , alcohol and no seatbelts were both factors.

I have seen gray/white matter before but not to this extent. The spray from the initial opening was massive (who knew 15torr was that much pressure).. The driver went out through the sunroof as it rolled it caught him on the lip of the sunroof.

The top of the head and the remainder of his brain were about 200ft away from the accident and the body.

This is my 3rd DOA this year, 6th overall. It was the most graphic of them all simply due to the sight of the hollow skull.

We did a CISD after the incident and brought in a friend who happens to be a psychologist and specialist for the canadian military for PTSD.

Joke a bit about it with co-workers as a sense of humor is a job requirement for this type of work...


The passenger of the vehicle, also not wearing a seatbelt, was ejected but closer to the accident. The truck landed upright in the median ditch and there was an ATV in the back of the truck (which also had a RV trailer). The ATV landed underneith the truck supporting the trucks rear end. The passenger was under the truck and had about 1 ft of clearance.

He was quickly immobilized and moved.

What bothers me most about these types of incidents is when there are two passengers and one is DOA the other always asks how his friend/wife/etc is doing.


I am not sure of the point of this post, more just to get it off my chest. Thanks for listening.

[Red_Devil]

again is this the place to post topics like this? next time i think you should leave the graphics out

[FireEMTGuy]

Red Devil I have had enough of you and your posts. If you don't have anything useful to input in a post or a forum DONT POST AT ALL!!!

Have you ever been trained in CISD/CISM or participated in a CISD? Obviously not. One of the core points is that you talk about the incident instead of holding it inside where it will only get worse.

I think I will quote you on this one:

If you dont enjoy my comments then dont read my replies to the forum.

Go use your "20+ years of vertan experiance" and post elsewhere!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


(If you had any real experience you would have something useful to comment instead of your usual negative POINTLESS posts.)

[LFD_FF17]

I agree with fireemtguy about red devil your getting really annoying and there was a warning about graphic content so if it bugs you why the hell did you read it?


as far as being supportive i am not a firefighter so therefore have no expirience with any of that so i dont know what to say either then im sorry you had to go through it but you know as well as i do that its part of the job and it was the first but this expirience will just help you get past the next one better, because there will be another one.

Firefighterkid

[wannabe]

No, you're absolutely right to be talking about this with your peers FireEMTGuy. I haven't seen anything of the like but could only imagine how hard it must have been.

I give you credit for being able to carry on in such a professional manner and get the job done that needed to be done. That what sets you guys apart. I also give you credit for using the CISD process. Deal with it or it will deal with you.

Another good thing that can come from a post like this is for us who think they would want to get into this profession. Makes you take a real hard look... ask yourself if you could handle the situation as well.

My best to you,

[Michael13]

I also agree with FIREEMTGUY. Most of us have expierenced an incident like this. I have been to many. And talking about helps. I personallly dont want to type them out for others I dont know to read. But someday I might. And if I do I dont want a guy like Red Devil to comment where its not needed.

"again is this the place to post topics like this? next time i think you should leave the graphics out"

My quote.
Again and again throughout this website Red Devil has been a problem. next time i think you should be left out.

[TiSme]

Fortunately I have never had to go to a call of that degree yet. A really good friend who got me introduced to the hall I now volunteer at had a similar call in that they had to collect body parts from a pedestrian vehicle accident on the highway.

He went throught the CISD process and he was told the same thing. Talk about it, control it or it will ruin you. He's still doing this job and loving it. I talked with him about it several times. It helped him to deal with it. Did I like it ...... well it wasn't my first choice in conversation. But it helped him and that's what counts.

We are all family in this service and family helps each other out. Hang in there and stick with the program, I know it helped my friend and if the time ever comes that I need it I hope it's there for me to.

Good luck and stay safe.

[Hart]

The only way to get it of your mind is to talk about it. I just finnished doing my 8th DOA this weekend. For some people it takes longer and for some it doesn`t bother them as much you will know for on the next bad call if you got it out of your head if not you have go and talk to someone about it before the third one.The person who keeps it inside is the one I worry about the most.
Hart

[FireEMTGuy]

Thanks for the support guys.

We had another breif meeting last thursday, week after.

Family of the guy brought us a card and a gift basket, nice gesture but you could see the pain they were still in. :(

Im back home this weekend but with all the snow in Alberta I am sure they are having a busy time.

[hrecruit]

hey bro,

Its normal too feel the way you feel your human.
just remember you didn't cause this accident your just there to help ( just another day at the office as a friend told me)

[Whitewater_419]

Originally posted by Red_Devil
again is this the place to post topics like this? next time i think you should leave the graphics out

Yes, this is the place to post topics like this.

We are firefighters and are expected to deal with situations like this.

Given that witnessing a decapitation or any other incident involving massive trauma to the body will be disturbing to those who witness it, it does indeed help to know there are others who have "been there, done that" who will know what you're talking about.

Finally, posts like this serve as a warning to those reading these forums in the hopes of being a firefighter: It's not all 'guts and glory' - people get hurt, people get killed and it's not always pretty - you have to know that you are capable of dealing with these realities *before* becoming a FF and not after, when your crew is depending on you to be a part of the team.

FireEMTGuy: Thanks for posting this - Glad you could get it off your chest and keep on truckin' !

-Marc

[BUSS]

i had my first rollover this past saterday. 1 outa 2 was lucky, he walked away but the other (the driver) was back boarded and brought to the er, then flown to a larger facility. realy an eye opener to see how an injury can change your life. she had a broken neck. so she couldnt move anything below it. "fun stuff"

[iamvff]

WOW...I just logged on and I can't believe what I just read. Sorry for being new to this and already complaining, but I seriously believe this RED_DEVIL guy is not even a member of a fire dept. I don't think that any member who claims to have that much experience would ever make a comment like the one he did. Experiences like the accident described in the original post can be a life altering experience. There have been people quit their careers, ruin their families, or worse because of the emotional stress some go through witnessing something like this. I am by no means an expert, and only have experience with my own brigade and the stuff we have dealt with, but I definately have time to listen. If anyone on this board needs a ear ( or eyes re:e-mail) to talk to just call. You will never recieve a cut down from me!!!
Be safe, Sorry for the rant.
iamvff

[FireEMTGuy]

Thanks again for the posts guys.

I was speaking with another FF and he mentioned how he avoids, whenever he can, looking in the eyes of the pt. I guess that immage can etch itself inside your mind and bother you.

Glad to know that everyone, even outside my crew, is just as supportive. :) Thanks!

[Brando]

Originally posted by FireEMTGuy
Thanks again for the posts guys.

I was speaking with another FF and he mentioned how he avoids, whenever he can, looking in the eyes of the pt. I guess that immage can etch itself inside your mind and bother you.

Glad to know that everyone, even outside my crew, is just as supportive. :) Thanks!

Thats what we've been told too. Dont look into the patients eyes. First call I went to was pretty nasty. Drunk driver with his wife in the car who didnt make it. Of course he was fine and walked away as if nothing happened.

Im just seeing lately how big the ff family is. Its nice to know you can get the support you need when you need it. Hopefully everything goes well for you FireEMTGuy.

[emtshields]

Man, all i can do is shake my head, i have been in EMS for about 7 years, and bud i know what you are talking about. We have guys like Red Devil in our company, they dont belong in the Emergency Field. All they do is make fun of the guys who are talking about call and shit they have seen, but one day they will find themselfs looking for support and everyone will turn the head and walk away,,

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK GUYS WE AS A TEAM MAKE A DIFFERANCE
with out police/fire/ems this world would be kaous!!!

[DoubleHelix]

I was talking to one of my captains and some firefighters on my truck that were at a fire in North york like 10 years ago or so and it was crazy. 6 people died and they were saying they were taking off their masks and changing bottles in total darkness and everything and finding bodies and just piling them in the elevator. I felt bad asking them questions but you could tell it was good for them to talk about it and they still had the memories like it happened yesterday. I've been doing my work placement for about a month and so far the most blood ive seen is the time I cut my finger cutting mushrooms making a salad. Guess thats a good thing but I think it would also be a good thing to see some stuff to get exposed to as much of the job as possible in my short stay.

Take care

[FFWannabe]

Originally posted by Red_Devil
again is this the place to post topics like this? next time i think you should leave the graphics out

You know, I saw a documentary about people with head injuries and apparently a very common occurence with head injuries, although usually short lived, is losing that inner voice that tells you not to say something or do something before it's out of your mouth or the action is completed. That's what protects us from the other commonly known "foot in mouth" syndrome, or the ever popular, "I look like an @ss again" syndrome. Makes me wonder.....

Anyway, FireEMTguy, sorry you had to go through this and I'm glad to read that it seems you have a good support system in place there. I'll never forget the first time I came across an accident as the first person on scene. I was just barely trained with CPR and first aid and I found my friend's van overturned with the steering wheel lodged in his chest. You never forget those things, but you can always take comfort in knowing you tried and were there for the person or his/her family.

Take care of you, it's people like you who make me feel safe.

Sue :)

[911Caddy]

I agree, We're all "professionals" Career or Volley. Talking or writing about a serious/graphic call is healing for some. It's important to get it out and not keep it in.. Remember what bothers some may not bother others.
The idea is to back each other! Keep up the good work!

[Michael13]

HAHAHAHAHA Now thats funny Sue. Funny but so true.

[Michael13]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FFWannabe
[B]You know, I saw a documentary about people with head injuries and apparently a very common occurence with head injuries, although usually short lived, is losing that inner voice that tells you not to say something or do something before it's out of your mouth or the action is completed. That's what protects us from the other commonly known "foot in mouth" syndrome, or the ever popular, "I look like an @ss again" syndrome. Makes me wonder.....

This is what I was laughing at. it is funny and true. And the section I posted in was in General EMS disscussion, NOT emotional wellness. Sorry if offended you or anyone, but remember the black humour?? Theres some humour in all types of situations.

[iamvff]

No offence was taken, just didn't get the laughing part....do now. I have that ailment regularily, but I didn't bump my head and it never seems to go away!!

be safe
iamvff

[skidder]

The severity of scenes we attend always changes. Never knowing what to expect.
Unfortunatly sometimes we have to see things that no one should ever have to.
CISM's are a great tool and talking about them with your peers is a help. don't let people make you feel stupid for wanting to talk about them if it helps.
We use alot of black humor at our hall and that seems to help. just be carefull it doesn't get miscontrued (spell check) outside of the hall.

Stay safe, keep your head down and make sure everyone goes home at the end.

[bestcoast]

The severity of scenes we attend always changes. Never knowing what to expect.
Unfortunatly sometimes we have to see things that no one should ever have to.
CISM's are a great tool and talking about them with your peers is a help. don't let people make you feel stupid for wanting to talk about them if it helps.
We use alot of black humor at our hall and that seems to help. just be carefull it doesn't get miscontrued (spell check) outside of the hall.

Stay safe, keep your head down and make sure everyone goes home at the end.
I agree, black humour is a very big thing on the job. And it shouldn't leave the hall, obviously. If you attend a scene that bothers you emotionally, then by all means seek help whether through your departments CISM team or just talking to someone. But there are some individuals that seem to be disturbed by quite a few calls they go on. Now by no means do I consider myself to be a cold heartless person, but I have seen, like most of you, people at their worst. I'm not going into war stories here but human beings don't fit under skytrain cars and suicides aren't pretty etc... And ya, i've dealt with those types of calls in my own way and moved on. I quess what i'm saying is you'd better be damn sure that you can handle the job and the things you HAVE TO DO at emergency scenes, because if you need to talk, or require CISM every week, maybe the Fire Department ain't your cup of tea.....stay safe everyone....BC....

[iamvff]

I agree with what your saying BC, but (more on a VFF) there are other options of jobs that have to be done at a bad scene also. On a VFF you don't necessarily want to get rid of someone because they can't deal with these sights.

Just out of curiosity, I wonder...when someone takes firefighting at college..do they forwarn you about what you might see. I know on the volunteer dept. quite often you join up picturing yourself putting out a shed fire, or running around putting out a grass fire or whatever...but I don't think to many people join a VFD thinking, tonight I am going to sit and stare at a guy that just flew 100 ft through the air after fitting through a car door window opening, and he looks like raggatey andy now. When we have new members join, I personally try to have a talk with them about the things that they might not expect to see, and tell them their options in those types of situations. Like traffic control for example.

just an observation, and suggestion
iamvff

[bestcoast]

I agree with what your saying BC, but (more on a VFF) there are other options of jobs that have to be done at a bad scene also. On a VFF you don't necessarily want to get rid of someone because they can't deal with these sights.

Just out of curiosity, I wonder...when someone takes firefighting at college..do they forwarn you about what you might see. I know on the volunteer dept. quite often you join up picturing yourself putting out a shed fire, or running around putting out a grass fire or whatever...but I don't think to many people join a VFD thinking, tonight I am going to sit and stare at a guy that just flew 100 ft through the air after fitting through a car door window opening, and he looks like raggatey andy now. When we have new members join, I personally try to have a talk with them about the things that they might not expect to see, and tell them their options in those types of situations. Like traffic control for example.

just an observation, and suggestion
iamvff
Very true iamvff, I quess my observation's are that from a full time perspective. Retaining volunteers can be challenging for some dept's and I see your point. However with full time departments we all know there is a line up for your job if you can't do it. I want to know that the guys with me on my truck are going to be able to ANYTHING that I do. And to be honest I would quess nobody is forwarned in college or whatever, of what you might experience "on the job". I was just thinking people should maybe do there homework maybe before making a decision to apply( I know I did). Also, Sitting down with your rookies and explaining what could happen or what might be seen is an excellent idea......BC...

[JoJobrat]

I think this is an excellant post. I appriciate the great warning before I read it. Anyone not wanting to know can just switch it off. There are alot of things they don't tell you in college. I got my law enforcement degree without realising just how often people vacate in situations. (Just a little thing) but I wish I could have been more prepared for what I've encountered since. I'm sure firefighting is the same. Would have been nice to have a sit down with a superior and find out some of the details that are never touched upon. Keep talking and learning. Life is to special to let it be ruined.

[dentedhead]

Very true iamvff, I quess my observation's are that from a full time perspective. Retaining volunteers can be challenging for some dept's and I see your point. However with full time departments we all know there is a line up for your job if you can't do it. I want to know that the guys with me on my truck are going to be able to ANYTHING that I do. And to be honest I would quess nobody is forwarned in college or whatever, of what you might experience "on the job". I was just thinking people should maybe do there homework maybe before making a decision to apply( I know I did). Also, Sitting down with your rookies and explaining what could happen or what might be seen is an excellent idea......BC...

You can be told all about the nasty sights you may encounter be it at college or the academy.,they may even show some pictures,hell there are any number of websites you can go and see some pretty sick s@#t.

The sights arent so bad. You can look always look away.Its the smells or the put the man together kit that comes free with every pedestrian vs train or truck call, that can be unsettling.

We all have a call or two that wont go away,but if every messy fatality causes you distress and the need to go to the talking Dr. you may want to reevaluate your career choice be it FF paramedic or copper.I had 3-4 guys in my ambulance class quit during college after experiencing calls like these.

My wife who has worked in ER/ICU for almost 20 years says she couldnt deal with some of the messes we see,you know the ones. They usually go into the red velvet bag and not to the hospital.

The CIS team /contact if you have one is a valuable asset and can be helpful.Talking with new staff before, during if possible and after an incident is a great way to help them cope.Never tease or demean we were all there once.

I too am neither heartless or so cold that this dosent bother me I look at it in simple terms.Its not my family move on.The gallows humour helps as well.

Dentedhead

[iamvff]

I went to an MVA in which a guy ran a stop sign, got broad sided, his wife was killed instantly, and we had to cut him out of the car. What bothered me the most about this one was the looky-loo's (Sick bastards), and the fact that by the time we made it back to town, my wife had already been pestard for details(which, BTW, she would never reveal any) While we were gone, she went to the bank and one of the staff there called her into her office and started questioning her about the call we were on. I know it sound stupid, but my wife did not sign up for the dept, I did. She should not have to have her phone ring off the hook everytime we get a call, especially on the nasty ones! This bothers me more than what I have seen at scenes so far. People just can't wait to hear the gorry details. That perticular scene was not the nicest by any means, I would like to know if the looky-loo's got what they hoped for, and get to picture that in their heads every night!

Just my thoughts,
iamvff