what's the difference ?

[Pumphead]

I'm from a small rural department. We have a small rural department pumper.
What's the difference with a quinte or a bronto or whatever?

Fill me in.

[firefighter26]

What's the difference with a quinte or a bronto or whatever?

A Quint is a type of apparatus, like a pumper or tanker. Though it has to meet a specific set of guidelines in order to be called one.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quint_(fire_apparatus)) has this a pretty simple definition based on the NFPA regulations that govern what a Qunit is, and isn't.

A Bronto, on the other hand, is a type of Aerial device, usually with a platform, specific to one (or more, I am not sure) apparatus manufacturer.

This is E-One's (http://www.e-one.com/index.asp?n=91&p=91&s=70&pid=11) website concerning the "Bronto."

On that note, I've seen one in action in during my worldly travels in Minnesota and it, along with the skill of it's operator, was a very impressive package. You'll note on E-One's website, the articulating end of the aerial device. I believe that is a unique trait of the "Bronto" unit.

Then again, I might be wrong about everything!!

[PFD023]

Speaking of Brontos, here's an interesting story on an incident with an older one in Montreal. Please make sure you read the complete article which will clarify the situation surrounding the failure on this model in comparison to the manufacturing and assembly of more recent ones.

http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/Photo-Stories/Montreal-Fire-Department-Witnesses-Bronto-SkyLift-Failure/45$31222

[PFD023]

For those of you who hate climbing stairs....here's one for you:

http://www.liftandaccess.com/index.php?id=1210

[ofdjersey]

In our looking for a new Aerial truck we have found two manufactures of articulating booms. E-One (Bronto) and The Metz/Rousenbauer (T-Rex). So there are two makers of this type of truck each with it's ups and downs.
Now the simpilest Way of explaining a "quint" is a Truck that 1 has a Pump,2.Tank, 3.Aerial device,4. Hoses, 5. ground ladders. So basically 5 things it has to make it a Quint. Bronto's can be quints or just straight Aerial, with no pump. Calgary has one like this. Hope that helps cheers

[FLASHOVER05]

hey PFD023,

Something so eriely familiar happened in 1988 with Toronto two Firefighters died when the knuckle on the Bronto gave way as a result of mechanical error. Since then Toronto employs two Mechanics specifically trained on the Bronto and it's lifting system.

Flashover1010,

A quint, is exactly as I have been told, what it's name indicates, a apparatus capable of incorporating a pump with an aerial ladder while holding ground ladders, hose and holding water..... Or something to that extent anyhow.

Bronto is no longer the only Vehicle manufacturer that offers an articulating boom on a vehicle. Anyone Remember King Seagrave? they offered the "Snorkel" similar to the Bronto's skylift but some time well before, and Ferara offers the strong arm.

[irsqyu]

I am running on a quint right now, basically we run ours as a pumper, it is single axle with a 55' aerial ladder on it. It is actually more of a pumper that an aerial, the ladder would mostly be used as a water tower if necessary.

On the other hand our 105' tandem axle Smeal Ladder is also a quint. It runs as a ladder, but it can also double as a pumper if required if it is running with four personnel.

The rest of our pumps are pump/rescues. It really does make sense to run vehicles that can do more than one operation when you are in a mid size to smaller community.

Every one of our trucks, Quints, Ladder, Pump/Rescues, Rescues carry heavy hydraulic extrication tools.

Versatility is the key!

[hmckay91]

Many years ago when men and horses drew fire apparatus to alarms, the number of wagons needed was large. The men and horses were limited in the weight they could haul therefore fire-fighting equipment was spread over many apparatus. This led to the development of "Engines" or "Pumpers" that pumped water and were "a machine for throwing water to extinguish fires". Hose wagons that carried the needed hoses, Ladder wagons that carried many ladders, Tank wagons that carried water to fire scenes but little else and Chemical carts carried the early attempts at using chemicals to extinguish fires.

The fire service evolved from horses to motorized vehicles and then to combination vehicles. That led to the description of fire trucks as things like "triple combination pumpers". That was a motorised vehicle with a water pump (engine) that carried hose (hose wagon) and a water tank. Thus the "triple combination pumper" was born and incorporated three functions from the older man/horse drawn era that would have been on separate wagons.

Triple Combination Pumper: A vehicle that incorporates a pump, booster equipment (water tank) and hose carrying capabilities

Quadruple Combination Pumper (Quad): A vehicle that incorporates a pump, booster equipment (water tank), hose carrying capabilities and a full complement of ground ladders, including one or more of at least 40 feet in length.


Quintuple Combination Pumper (Quint): A vehicle that incorporates a pump, booster equipment (water tank), hose carrying capabilities, a full complement of ground ladders, including one or more of at least 40 feet in length, and an aerial ladder.

[ssifire]

Many years ago when men and horses drew fire apparatus to alarms, the number of wagons needed was large. The men and horses were limited in the weight they could haul therefore fire-fighting equipment was spread over many apparatus. This led to the development of "Engines" or "Pumpers" that pumped water and were "a machine for throwing water to extinguish fires". Hose wagons that carried the needed hoses, Ladder wagons that carried many ladders, Tank wagons that carried water to fire scenes but little else and Chemical carts carried the early attempts at using chemicals to extinguish fires.

The fire service evolved from horses to motorized vehicles and then to combination vehicles. That led to the description of fire trucks as things like "triple combination pumpers". That was a motorised vehicle with a water pump (engine) that carried hose (hose wagon) and a water tank. Thus the "triple combination pumper" was born and incorporated three functions from the older man/horse drawn era that would have been on separate wagons.

Triple Combination Pumper: A vehicle that incorporates a pump, booster equipment (water tank) and hose carrying capabilities

Quadruple Combination Pumper (Quad): A vehicle that incorporates a pump, booster equipment (water tank), hose carrying capabilities and a full complement of ground ladders, including one or more of at least 40 feet in length.


Quintuple Combination Pumper (Quint): A vehicle that incorporates a pump, booster equipment (water tank), hose carrying capabilities, a full complement of ground ladders, including one or more of at least 40 feet in length, and an aerial ladder.

What will they think of next...


ps nice history lesson :)

[FireChef]

Cant forget the difference in price too, between a Quint and Engine

[ofdjersey]

hey PFD023,



Bronto is no longer the only Vehicle manufacturer that offers an articulating boom on a vehicle. Anyone Remember King Seagrave? they offered the "Snorkel" similar to the Bronto's skylift but some time well before, and Ferara offers the strong arm.

Does the Strong arm now have an ability to hold FF in a basket now. I haven't found anything on it but it would be kinda neat if it could/

[BillyBlazes]

hey PFD023,

Something so eriely familiar happened in 1988 with Toronto two Firefighters died when the knuckle on the Bronto gave way as a result of mechanical error. Since then Toronto employs two Mechanics specifically trained on the Bronto and it's lifting system.

Flashover1010,

A quint, is exactly as I have been told, what it's name indicates, a apparatus capable of incorporating a pump with an aerial ladder while holding ground ladders, hose and holding water..... Or something to that extent anyhow.

Bronto is no longer the only Vehicle manufacturer that offers an articulating boom on a vehicle. Anyone Remember King Seagrave? they offered the "Snorkel" similar to the Bronto's skylift but some time well before, and Ferara offers the strong arm.

The accident you speak of resulted in the death of one firefighter and injured 3 others that were in the bucket. The failure dumped the guys onto the roof of the fire station. Toronto had one Bronto at that thime with a second one on the way, the two crews were training on a Sunday morning at the station.

We do not emply two mechanics too the Bronto's, the SOP states that each Bronto must have two trained firefighters for the rig to be in service. We currently have 3 Bronto's #331 and #332 are in service. #114 has been delivered and crews are currently being trained on the new truck. The one difference with the new truck is that the boom is painted white instead of gray.

[FLASHOVER05]

We do not emply two mechanics too the Bronto's, the SOP states that each Bronto must have two trained firefighters for the rig to be in service. We currently have 3 Bronto's #331 and #332 are in service. #114 has been delivered and crews are currently being trained on the new truck. The one difference with the new truck is that the boom is painted white instead of gray.


What I meant was Toronto Currently employs two Mechanics that have specialized working knowledge of the Skylift system. Plans are to train more.... BTW when 114 was delivered to mechanical I believe it was gray... at least I remember seeing it that way when I went by altough I could be mistaken.

[dentedhead]

hey PFD023,

Something so eriely familiar happened in 1988 with Toronto two Firefighters died when the knuckle on the Bronto gave way as a result of mechanical error

Best recheck your facts on that one.It was 1 LODD 2 or 3 LODI.

I also recall it being a hydraulic or electrical issue causing the bucket to eject the guys when they were doing their truck checks.

EDIT:Just saw Billys post so I guess age hasnt caused my memberin to completely leave.

Dentedhead

[irsqyu]

I remember this and all of the discussions at the time. The accident happened after the bucket touched the ground with too much force(when picking up passengers). It bent just a little causing the pulleys( cable, belts or chain. not sure) which keep the bucket level to be pushed a little closer together than they should be.
This caused the cable, belt or chain between the two pulleys(levelling system) to slip and allow the basket to fall forward when in operation. I believe they were over the roof of a station and the firefighter fell out.
If I remember correctly, the firefighters name was Kennedy

[irsqyu]

Here is a link to the story and pictures

http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/Photo-Stories/Montreal-Fire-Department-Witnesses-Bronto-SkyLift-Failure/45$31222



Sorry PFD didn't realize you already posted this!

[FLASHOVER05]

Best recheck your facts on that one.It was 1 LODD 2 or 3 LODI.


Dentedhead

I stand corrected.... my appologies :(

[irsqyu]

From Canadian Fallen Firefighters Foundation, I believe this was the firefighter involved:



1989-03-09Kennedy, Gary W. (http://www.cfff.ca/fallen/detail_e.php?ff_id=172)Acting CaptainToronto, Ontario

[FLASHOVER05]

Does the Strong arm now have an ability to hold FF in a basket now. I haven't found anything on it but it would be kinda neat if it could/

Sorry, my info on ferara was quite vague. I was unsure about the strong arm. seems to be merely a stick on a pumper... more or less

http://www.ferrarafire.com/apparatus/strong_arm/index.html

[ofdjersey]

Ok i was thinking they changed what it was. Hmm still thinking a bronto or the trex may be the way to go ;)

[PFD023]

Searched back through the forums and found a discussion on the incident from 2005 involving Capt. Kennedy. There is also discussion on the Montreal incident.

http://www.firehall.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2990&page=4

Thank god our memory doesn't fail us as the years go by.....:>

[irsqyu]

Searched back through the forums and found a discussion on the incident from 2005 involving Capt. Kennedy. There is also discussion on the Montreal incident.

http://www.firehall.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2990&page=4

Thank god our memory doesn't fail us as the years go by.....:>


Well, the memory didn't fail me, but it sure took a while to access it, lol:alberteinstein:

I also remember seeing photos of the pulley levelling system and how the failure occurred. This was back around the time of the accident.

[BillyBlazes]

What I meant was Toronto Currently employs two Mechanics that have specialized working knowledge of the Skylift system. Plans are to train more.... BTW when 114 was delivered to mechanical I believe it was gray... at least I remember seeing it that way when I went by altough I could be mistaken.

I was at the academy with #114 on Saturday and the boom is white.
They had #331 and #114 beside each other doing evolutions on the fire ground.
The firefighter killed in the accident was Acting Captain Gary Kennedy.
I was working the day of the accident, it was a tragic day for the department.

[FLASHOVER05]

I was at the academy with #114 on Saturday and the boom is white.



I saw the truck about a month ago.... now if I recall you are right... I almost mistook it for a regular stick before a second look