Section 21 for volunteer dept.

[wing851]

Has anyone in a volunteer department actually used this successfully to accomplish any beneficial safety changes?

As a Health and Safety Rep at a smaller dept, from what I have seen, most Chiefs could care less about it. I have brought up lots of points from Section 21 but nobody really thinks it's mandatory even though it is.

From what I see, to the small volunteer departments it's just another amazing government book of (maybe I) "should do's".

[dentedhead]

Has anyone in a volunteer department actually used this successfully to accomplish any beneficial safety changes?

As a Health and Safety Rep at a smaller dept, from what I have seen, most Chiefs could care less about it. I have brought up lots of points from Section 21 but nobody really thinks it's mandatory even though it is.

From what I see, to the small volunteer departments it's just another amazing government book of (maybe I) "should do's".


Just point out to the chief what the employers duties are.Followed closely by what the supervisors role is and finally the employees duties.It is all quite clear.

You can also mention to him that its him that will be getting dinged with the fine should the wheels come off something causing an injury.If its a critical injury by OHSA definition then he and the municipality will be digging deep.

Dont forget that it is not an act of convieniance.You cant pick and chose what you will or will not adhere to.

DEnteduhead

[firefighter316]

We've been fairly fortunate in our dept. Sometimes it takes time to get the change done but that is largely due to the Chief being overworked. We've even been successful in getting rescue belts on our SCBA due to the fact that some of our buildings are too tall to be laddered and an aerial is at least 5 years down the road.
Do you have a Joint Health and Safety Committee? It is law to have one if the staffing is over either 20 or 24 people. If you do, it carries a lot of weight and he cannot just ignore your issues.

Good luck

[itsnotahobby]

If you are truly serious about your safety, all it takes is one phone call to the MOL and they'll have an inspector out right away. I gaurantee they'll want to see the SOP book and if youre not covering the Section 21 guidelines, they'll issue orders and fines. Believe me we're going through this now in the Niagara Region.

[FLASHOVER05]

If you are truly serious about your safety, all it takes is one phone call to the MOL and they'll have an inspector out right away. I gaurantee they'll want to see the SOP book and if youre not covering the Section 21 guidelines, they'll issue orders and fines. Believe me we're going through this now in the Niagara Region.

I'd probably do the same.... You've got to push some buttons in order to have your safety recognized

[telesquirt]

You and your municipality also have to understand that according to the Act a "firefighter" is defined as being a worker who is a full-time or volunteer----it doesn't matter who you are if you are in contravention of the regulations as set out in the act. So lets say that a "firefighter" receives severe burns to the head and face and the MOL decides to investigate and they determine that this worker was not wearing proper PPE (no balaclava)----it doesn't matter to them---fulltime or vollie department---someone will be getting a fine.

[itsnotahobby]

Ask your Chief and Deputy how they like their houses, cars and freedom. If something happens like a serious injury or death this will deffinetly be seen as negligence and you can bet that they will be charged under the new law as well heavy fines will be layed.
If they don't beleive you tell them to check out bill C-45 and see what they think.

[FitSsikS]

If they don't beleive you tell them to check out bill C-45 and see what they think.

From bill C-45

Duty of persons

2.17.1

Every one who undertakes, or has the authority, to direct how another person does work or performs a task is under a legal duty to take reasonable steps to prevent bodily harm to that person, or any other person, arising from that work or task.

Click: Summary: Bill C-45 (http://www.cca-acc.com/news/government/billc45/summary.pdf)

[wing851]

Thanks everyone.

The way the township has organized fire H&S is that we are a sub-committee not part of the actual JH&S which is populated by the township folks. I am not even sure if this is legal since we have more than 20 FF's at numerous locations. This said we meet every quarter but vertually nothing is accomplished. Some ideas are talked about but no direction or plan is ever discussed. Major issues/infractions have been documented but the budget always over weighs any plans. I am practicing due diligence but nothing happens. I was really close to calling the MOL but I don't want to piss everyone off especially my Chief who is a good friend.

[itsnotahobby]

Thanks everyone.

The way the township has organized fire H&S is that we are a sub-committee not part of the actual JH&S which is populated by the township folks. I am not even sure if this is legal since we have more than 20 FF's at numerous locations. This said we meet every quarter but vertually nothing is accomplished. Some ideas are talked about but no direction or plan is ever discussed. Major issues/infractions have been documented but the budget always over weighs any plans. I am practicing due diligence but nothing happens. I was really close to calling the MOL but I don't want to piss everyone off especially my Chief who is a good friend.

Tell me this do you want to go to a funeral? Do you want others to go to yours and console your family? If hes such a good friend why is he allowing you to be put in this situation? If you call the MOL it can be done anonymous if you want. Ask them what they think will happen to the budget when they have to start paying out fines. Or worse how about legal fees to represent incompetent department heads when someone dies due to their negligence.
You may not want to act, but how will you sleep if you don't and something happens to someone?

[WFD999]

Changeing a safety mindset is a tough row to hoe. It can be done. Be it about a torn glove or two in or two out rule. Standing one's ground. We are now being watched, The we dont have to do it, kind of thinking is out the window now thw WCB is watching and laid out the rules for us to follow. If its unsafe each person has a obligation to refuse. Not just the right. At least thats the law in AB. Its funny but the hardest guys sometimes are the ones that have been there 5 + years the old timers and the new guys seem to catch on pretty quickly. In my department I'm pretty proud of saying safety is on the top of the list. It hasnt always been that way. It's taken a long time to build a safety culture the KISS system works.

QUOTE"This said we meet every quarter but vertually nothing is accomplished. Some ideas are talked about but no direction or plan is ever discussed. Major issues/infractions have been documented but the budget always over weighs any plans. I am practicing due diligence but nothing happens. I was really close to calling the MOL but I don't want to piss everyone off especially my Chief who is a good friend."QUOTE

The lead of your safety culture is the chief he has to buy in before the rest. That said, when the budget comes around how big a bite is safety trying to take. (Dont shoot me yet).
Is there a large capital outlay, training, fall arrest equipment, major equipment repiars. Will this take the building of reserves, a three or five year business plan to make it all happen. Or is it just getting the guys\gals to lock into ladders do up PPE properly those issues get cleaned up from the top down.

Good Luck

Whats that saying one of my first instructors beat into me Oh yeah

A dead hero is just another victim.

[Danno3273]

Quote
Do you have a Joint Health and Safety Committee? It is law to have one if the staffing is over either 20 or 24 people. If you do, it carries a lot of weight and he cannot just ignore your issues.

I just brought this up at our officers meeting last night and your right the OSHA has alot of sections that directly apply to us and regardless of cost the municipality/supervisor has to adhere to it.!!! Remember all you officers out there that we are difined as supervisors under the OSHA and we too can face fines or jail so read it if you get a chance. I was always taught that shit rolls down hill and being a Captain I am expecting some good flow and speed by the time it gets to me
Dan

[itsnotahobby]

Quote
Do you have a Joint Health and Safety Committee? It is law to have one if the staffing is over either 20 or 24 people. If you do, it carries a lot of weight and he cannot just ignore your issues.

I just brought this up at our officers meeting last night and your right the OSHA has alot of sections that directly apply to us and regardless of cost the municipality/supervisor has to adhere to it.!!! Remember all you officers out there that we are difined as supervisors under the OSHA and we too can face fines or jail so read it if you get a chance. I was always taught that shit rolls down hill and being a Captain I am expecting some good flow and speed by the time it gets to me
Dan


This is the point that we were trying to get accross, it doesn't matter if you run 10 calls a year or 10 000, the law still applies equally.

[wing851]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I will give an example of what I have been up against.

In section 21/CSA Z94 there is a requirement to implement a respiratory program that includes fit testing. No one even knew what fit testing was when I brought it up. I believe it was about 1 1/2 years ago and nothing has been even talked about since then. I know the the MOL would break out a fry pan for the Chief and others that have ignored the issue. We have 100+ firefighters and nothing is done after 1 1/2 years. How do you get everyone to understand the importance and the urgency of a respiratory program? We even post those big WSIB posters in every station. I feel we are getting no where as a safety committee. The department Chief without a doubt is the road block.

[itsnotahobby]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I will give an example of what I have been up against.

In section 21/CSA Z94 there is a requirement to implement a respiratory program that includes fit testing. No one even knew what fit testing was when I brought it up. I believe it was about 1 1/2 years ago and nothing has been even talked about since then. I know the the MOL would break out a fry pan for the Chief and others that have ignored the issue. We have 100+ firefighters and nothing is done after 1 1/2 years. How do you get everyone to understand the importance and the urgency of a respiratory program? We even post those big WSIB posters in every station. I feel we are getting no where as a safety committee. The department Chief without a doubt is the road block.

Depends how your organization is set up. I would take the steps and have a committee formed on your end. Vote on who should be on it, elect a chair, and approach the chief. Fire off a letter to the chief and carbon copy the city manager as well as council if you wish, and quote the OHSA. Make sure you outline why you want it and that it is the law, if they don't listen call the ministry of labour. You need to get this in play.

[wing851]

Thanks for your input. This sounds like a good option. I will let you know what happens.

Wing

[gfd31]

Try using this link...

http://ogov.newswire.ca/getorg_e.html?okey=16716

Clear, plain, and real life examples of charges and fines...

Eye openers sometimes work.