Guidance Notes_Section 21

[OttawaVFF]

Hi Guys,

Can't seem to find what I am looking for. Does anyone know if Section 21 discusses
driving specifically following speed limits. Is there a exception in the Traffic act.
I am looking for LINKS only to references on this. (ONTARIO)

Thanks for any help.

http://www.oafc.on.ca/lib/db2file.asp?fileid=786

[itsnotahobby]

Hi Guys,

Can't seem to find what I am looking for. Does anyone know if Section 21 discusses
driving specifically following speed limits. Is there a exception in the Traffic act.
I am looking for LINKS only to references on this. (ONTARIO)

Thanks for any help.

http://www.oafc.on.ca/lib/db2file.asp?fileid=786

6-7 Is for safe driving. The highway traffic act does not allow for driving over the speed limit as far as I know. If you get in an accident in a truck running code and the police determine speed as a factor you will be charged.

[wilderness]

Hey just took legislation 101, and in your own personel vehicle you may not speed to an emergency scene. Now if you were in a Fire Apparatus, you may speed to the scene, providing the weather and road conditions are warranted... You may also stop at a red light and proceed once it is safe to do so, if you are hit in the intersection, you will be charged for yeilding for a red light but the other person will be charged for not yeilding for an emergency vehicle.... When i get home tonight i'll find where it is in the book. and post again tomorrow. I believe it was under the highway traffic act, not section 21

[irsqyu]

Hey just took legislation 101, and in your own personel vehicle you may not speed to an emergency scene. Now if you were in a Fire Apparatus, you may speed to the scene, providing the weather and road conditions are warranted... You may also stop at a red light and proceed once it is safe to do so, if you are hit in the intersection, you will be charged for yeilding for a red light but the other person will be charged for not yeilding for an emergency vehicle.... When i get home tonight i'll find where it is in the book. and post again tomorrow. I believe it was under the highway traffic act, not section 21
You are right, It's ALL in the Ontario Highway Traffic Act available here:

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm

[itsnotahobby]

You are right, It's ALL in the Ontario Highway Traffic Act available here:

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm

Good post, here is what I found;

Fire department vehicles and police vehicles

(13) The speed limits prescribed under this section or any regulation or by-law passed under this section do not apply to,

Note: On a day to be named by proclamation of the Lieutenant Governor, subsection (13) is amended by the Statutes of Ontario, 2005, chapter 26, Schedule A, subsection 17 (6) by striking out the portion before clause (a) and substituting the following:

Fire department vehicles and police vehicles

(13) The speed limits prescribed by this section or by a regulation or by-law passed under this section or set under section 128.0.1 do not apply to,

See: 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, ss. 17 (6), 34 (2).

(a) a fire department vehicle as defined in section 61 while proceeding to a fire or responding to, but not returning from, a fire alarm or other emergency call;

(b) a motor vehicle while used by a person in the lawful performance of his or her duties as a police officer; or

(c) an ambulance as defined in section 61 while responding to an emergency call or being used to transport a patient or injured person in an emergency situation. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 128 (13).

[OttawaVFF]

Thank you!!

Hey, did you know we have official use of the green lights.

Green flashing light restricted

(16) The following persons may carry on or in his or her vehicle and operate a lamp that produces intermittent flashes of green light:

1. A firefighter, within the meaning of subsection 1 (1) of the Fire Protection and Prevention Act, 1997, while proceeding to a fire or other emergency.

2. A prescribed class of volunteer medical responder, while driving a prescribed class or type of vehicle or engaging in a prescribed activity or in prescribed conditions or circumstances. 2007, c. 13, s. 17 (5).

Same

(16.1) No person other than a person described in subsection (16) shall operate a lamp that produces intermittent flashes of green light. 1994, c. 35, s. 1.

[StillHopin]

To bad the light is just a light, you must obey all traffic regulations and half the general public have no clue what the light represents (very frustrating!) The only laws that apply to you and not the public is that you can drive down a closed road in persuit of a Fire Call.

[wilderness]

The green light is a hit or miss, the problem we are having is. Algonquin College has green reflective parking passes, that in the right sunlight look like a green strobe light... so that just means the public is going to see alot of them and it will be a regular thing.... Its a curtious light, and by no means does it give us any better responce times as we still have to follow the traffic laws.. And it brings unwanted attention.

[wilderness]

You are right, It's ALL in the Ontario Highway Traffic Act available here:

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm

Thanks irsqyu

[OttawaVFF]

Hey, the light is cool, it's ours, nobody can take it away and that's all that matters. lol
It also get my wife off many speeding tickets, that and the fire licence plate.

[dentedhead]

Hey, the light is cool, it's ours, nobody can take it away and that's all that matters. lol
It also get my wife off many speeding tickets, that and the fire licence plate.


Well done you just destroyed most of your credibility in one fell swoop!

Dentedhead

[VolFirie]

Most of his credibility? I would have said all...

[wilderness]

Most of his credibility? I would have said all...
I second that........

[OttawaVFF]

Lost my credibility?

That fact that my wife speeds on occasion looses me credibility? Or is it because I am blessed to be on a department where I am respected by most, blessed to have been able to take the training I have to prepare for a great career for a job that everyone knows is the coolest job in the world. I thought this was a place where we could speak our minds, have a laugh and not have to be politically correct on every statement we make. This is not the interview panel!

Anyway, I sincerely appreciate everyone’s help.

[PellattFire]

Lost my credibility?

That fact that my wife speeds on occasion looses me credibility? Or is it because I am blessed to be on a department where I am respected by most, blessed to have been able to take the training I have to prepare for a great career for a job that everyone knows is the coolest job in the world. I thought this was a place where we could speak our minds, have a laugh and not have to be politically correct on every statement we make. This is not the interview panel!

Anyway, I sincerely appreciate everyone’s help.
Green lights are a touchy issue sometimes.
Some people get downright cranky about them.
They do not afford us anything other than to be able to expect common courtesy from other drivers when we are on our way to a call.

I understood what I think you were saying.
That green lights afford a certain courtesy from the police that isn't required but is nice none the same.
I have seen it do just the opposite at times as well.
That is an issue that the police are the only ones in control of and should not reflect on the FF at all.
I think the fact that the courtesy might be being expected is the issue.

Some just have an issue that we have them at all but that is their problem and they are just itching for a reason to slam them and anyone who might say something lighthearted about them.

Some people have no humour when it comes to this stuff.
Unfortunately all it takes is one sometimes and the pack descends to devour the wounded lamb.

What you said was not particularly wise but it doesn't deserve the gang pummeling that just happened either.

Especially when people feel they can call you out on your integrity when they have a signature that implies that they avoid work whenever possible even while being paid.

I thought that signature was quite funny actually.
Give the guy the same benefit of the doubt as you expect from everyone else.

[gfd31]

My two cents:
I have always been taught that once we have passed our recruitment and become a member of the f.d. that everything we say and do is a direct reflection of the department.

So, I personally would question why anyone would put that statement out in the public domain. That could be damaging to you, your department and your municipality.
Having said that I agree with pellattfire, personal attacks are not needed amongst brothers and sisters.

And then to play the devils advocate Ottawa VFF...

Are ya sure it was the light and the plates?

[kriand]

Hey, the light is cool, it's ours, nobody can take it away and that's all that matters. lol
It also get my wife off many speeding tickets, that and the fire licence plate.

Umm
I just read this again. Perhaps i'm reading it wrong , and if I am I apologize.

You have a cool green light that no one can touch.........you can do whatever you want when driving and not get caught AND this extendes to your wife. Is she a firefighter too??
Anybody can get Fire licence plates...........so does that mean if you get the plates you can break the law??

I 'm kind of siding with the loss of credibility here.

[nocomment]

Well done you just destroyed most of your credibility in one fell swoop!

Dentedhead

I agree Dentedhead. Guess that makes me part of the "gang" now eh! :rolleyes:

[OttawaVFF]

My two cents:

Are ya sure it was the light and the plates?


I just talked to my wife. She agrees and doesn’t think that it had anything to do with the lights or the plates. She said it was the stickers!

Since many don't have a sense of humour today, even though it is Friday, you will at the least be able to feel good about yourselves by bash this tread some more!

[dentedhead]

Rather than quote the usaual suspects Ill just go ahead and reply in general terms,

First OVFF search the green light threads out and you will understand why I made the post I did here.Green lights,two hattres and who is professional are always guaranteed to cause some heated debate.

I personally have no issue with them,I dont get the point of them and quite frankly I could give a rats ass who has one.Same for license plates.They are even harder to get, 52 bucks and an ownership and you too can be proud to serve.I play hockey with a couple of OPP guys.They tell me that they will pull someone over at least once a month who isnt even connected to any type of FD.They just figured it was a get out of jail free card.

Go ahead sticker your car up, get the plates. Hell why stop at one light get a couple.I dont care if every article of clothing you wear has proud to serve or I fight what you fear or any of the other really cool fireman shirts just dont expect favours for it.

To my friend pellatfire if you or anyone else think that my sig reflects my work ethic well I guess its done its job.As to "gang pummelling" I must have missed a bunch of deleted posts.

Dentedhead

[PellattFire]

Three people attacked this guys personal integrity after he made what I took as a pretty lighthearted post.

Slam his ideas all you want.
At least a person can come back at that point and either defend their points or explain why they were misunderstood.

It wasn't his ideas you attacked it was him.
Then three people after have decided to jump in and join in the personal attack.

I never took your signature as the only way I should see you or a defining statement of who you are as a firefighter or a person.
I took it as a lighthearted way of saying you enjoy the job.
When you look at it though most people spend far more time deciding what to put as their signature than a quick follow up post.
Why should a guys integrity ride on every flippant word he utters.

It might have been more courteous of you to you at least ask if the guy meant it before you attacked him as a person.

[nocomment]

Three people attacked this guys personal integrity after he made what I took as a pretty lighthearted post.

Slam his ideas all you want.
At least a person can come back at that point and either defend their points or explain why they were misunderstood.

It wasn't his ideas you attacked it was him.
Then three people after have decided to jump in and join in the personal attack.

I never took your signature as the only way I should see you or a defining statement of who you are as a firefighter or a person.
I took it as a lighthearted way of saying you enjoy the job.
When you look at it though most people spend far more time deciding what to put as their signature than a quick follow up post.
Why should a guys integrity ride on every flippant word he utters.

It might have been more courteous of you to you at least ask if the guy meant it before you attacked him as a person.

I've seen some of the novels you have going in other threads backing your many opinions. And frankly I don't have the time, energy, and most importantly, interest in getting into a pissing match with you. I stand by my original post.

[PellattFire]

I've seen some of the novels you have going in other threads backing your many opinions. And frankly I don't have the time, energy, and most importantly, interest in getting into a pissing match with you. I stand by my original post.
Sorry I'll try to type less for you.
If you can't attack the reason attack the person I guess.

[OttawaVFF]

It now Saturday and everyone is still bitter. Why don't you all come back here Monday
morning when you actually have a good reason to be.

I'd love to give a further explanation to my comments but to be honest there isn't a whole
lot more to say. You’re all reading way too much into this. There is much truth to the words but it was obviously said in a joking manner. My wife is not reckless on the road and neither am I. She happened get off on a speeding ticket, she was respectful to the officer as she is to everyone and he let her off. I am not going to personally attack anyone for what they have said as being deliberately insulting doesn't come natural to me and would actually entail a lot of work.

[kriand]

It now Saturday and everyone is still bitter. Why don't you all come back here Monday
morning when you actually have a good reason to be.

I'd love to give a further explanation to my comments but to be honest there isn't a whole
lot more to say. You’re all reading way too much into this. There is much truth to the words but it was obviously said in a joking manner. My wife is not reckless on the road and neither am I. She happened get off on a speeding ticket, she was respectful to the officer as she is to everyone and he let her off. I am not going to personally attack anyone for what they have said as being deliberately insulting doesn't come natural to me and would actually entail a lot of work.

There are too many out there that have used your original comments in a non joking matter. So when comments get tossed like that.........people react.
There is a fellow ( or 2) in my area that have quit their respective volly dept , but you still see them running around with the hats , shirts , plates etc . , obviously giving all firefighters a bad name.

[Nagrom]

There are too many out there that have used your original comments in a non joking matter. So when comments get tossed like that.........people react.
There is a fellow ( or 2) in my area that have quit their respective volly dept , but you still see them running around with the hats , shirts , plates etc . , obviously giving all firefighters a bad name.

This is part of the problem. In NS, you see way too many cars with FF plates. I think they are trying to change it. There are new rules, along with the tax credit, that you have to make 20% of calls, be in active service for 12 months, and attend a quarter of meetings or something like that. I met a car the other day with a probably 80 year old woman, with firefighter plates. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but what are the chances?

[dentedhead]

There are too many out there that have used your original comments in a non joking matter. So when comments get tossed like that.........people react.
There is a fellow ( or 2) in my area that have quit their respective volly dept , but you still see them running around with the hats , shirts , plates etc . , obviously giving all firefighters a bad name.

The entire reason I replied in the first place.

Im sure if I posted the only reason i have an IAFF sticker on my truck and the wifes van is.... because its mine and its cool and it gets my wife off tickets for parking in handicapped spaces.I would bet the farm that I would be given a rough ride too.

I also wear my uniform when shopping for big ticket items!

Dentedhead

[gfd31]

Hmm,
Wear my uniform, get discounts, get a green light, f.d plates and stickers, get off on speeding tickets,, this is a better gig than I thought originally!

[irsqyu]

Hmm,
Wear my uniform, get discounts, get a green light, f.d plates and stickers, get off on speeding tickets,, this is a better gig than I thought originally!


My guess is if I am correct, the cops do not have much sympathy for firefighters in your town, especially with that well renowned learning establishment there. I have heard that they love to post ride checks on the way to the "cottage"

[OttawaVFF]

Hey, Look at that!! We have a funny on a Monday.

[WFD999]

God Bless the printed word. Cant see a twinkle in a eye a crooked smile, red face or a drooling lip.

Does that discount work at the beer store.

[cranky]

God Bless the printed word. Cant see a twinkle in a eye a crooked smile, red face or a drooling lip.

Does that discount work at the beer store.

I have to agree with you, the threads here are great, lots of info, things to try, even an education, but it is sometimes hard to read what the poster means, are they being sarcastic, sincere or just stirring the pot. We all do what we do hopefully for the same reason and yes especially in NS there are way more plates than fire fighters which hopefully will be rectified. Not everyone is as respectful of the job as every one else but when you have this many type A personalities you will eventually disagree about something.

I am really interested in that discount beer thing, I would even drink Molson Canadian if I could get a cut rate.

[irsqyu]

but it is sometimes hard to read what the poster means, are they being sarcastic, sincere or just stirring the pot.

If you are referring to my post in regards to GFD, none of the above apply. This website is country wide, this was a bit of an inside joke.(Ontario) I sure most firefighters in Ontario would know what I was eluding to. If you would like to know I was talking about the small town where our fire college is located. The odd time the students like to let loose and blow off a little steam after class. The police in that particular town would not have a lot of patience for someone flashing a firefighters badge.
There is the odd thing from the east coast that passes over us from Ontario also, lol

[cranky]

Nah I wasn't refering to you I was agreeing with WFD999 on his comment about OttawaVFF we really have no way of telling what he orginally meant cause we can't hear the sarcasim or the seriousness of his voice or see the facial expressions. I knew youse were from Ontario just wasn't sure where, I miss going to the cottage at Wasaga. (dang I wish this thing had spell check) I really not as stupid as my spelling would allude to, I just can't spell.

I have only been on this site for about a month and a half but its a great site, being able to type to everyone, even if we do get bent outta shape once in a while. Lots of great info here and opinions, lots of opinions. It is good to get someone elses perspective even if it is "wrong".

[irsqyu]

Nah I wasn't refering to you I was agreeing with WFD999 on his comment about OttawaVFF we really have no way of telling what he orginally meant cause we can't hear the sarcasim or the seriousness of his voice or see the facial expressions. I knew youse were from Ontario just wasn't sure where, I miss going to the cottage at Wasaga. (dang I wish this thing had spell check) I really not as stupid as my spelling would allude to, I just can't spell.

I have only been on this site for about a month and a half but its a great site, being able to type to everyone, even if we do get bent outta shape once in a while. Lots of great info here and opinions, lots of opinions. It is good to get someone elses perspective even if it is "wrong".

Here in Ontario we affectionately refer to the Ontario Fire College as the "Ontario Fire Cottage" as it is located on the shores of beautiful Lake Muskoka in the heart of cottage country.
As far as Wasaga, nice place but it will never be the same since the landmark strip burned down last year!

[gfd31]

. It is good to get someone elses perspective even if it is "wrong".

Well said!

[PellattFire]

(dang I wish this thing had spell check)

Check out this link. (http://www.google.ca/aclk?sa=l&ai=BpXXsj5f9R6KQCoGyhQOcpbw71OeIO5SO06AF6u7-jgWw6gEIABABGAEgtlQ4AFDQzKKmAmD9kJCB6AOgAaqp9v4DyA EByALow44B2QO90V7ZYsy-PQ&ggladgrp=230051468&gglcreat=1280016728&sig=AGiWqtyrjnFvN0H-SrQzDnzA77yCmMDQ4A&q=http://toolbar.google.com/T4/index.html%3Futm_campaign%3Den%26utm_source%3Den-ha-na-us-syn%26utm_medium%3Dha%26utm_term%3Dgoogle%2520spel l%2520check%26tbbrand%3DGZAY)
It works great and on any page that you can type on.
I can't splell at all.
I use another extension built into Firefox though.

[cranky]

I have had it along and didn't know it until now, guess I should have taken some computer lessons as well as the spelling. Thanks for pointing it out for me.