First Decapitation - Warning Graphic Content

[FireEMTGuy]

Be advised this post contains graphic content.


Well I had my first decapitation last night… more of a partial decapitation as it sheared off his skull just above his nose. It was a single vehicle rollover on the Yellowhead , alcohol and no seatbelts were both factors.

I have seen gray/white matter before but not to this extent. The spray from the initial opening was massive (who knew 15torr was that much pressure).. The driver went out through the sunroof as it rolled it caught him on the lip of the sunroof.

The top of the head and the remainder of his brain were about 200ft away from the accident and the body.

This is my 3rd DOA this year, 6th overall. It was the most graphic of them all simply due to the sight of the hollow skull.

We did a CISD after the incident and brought in a friend who happens to be a psychologist and specialist for the canadian military for PTSD.

Joke a bit about it with co-workers as a sense of humor is a job requirement for this type of work...


The passenger of the vehicle, also not wearing a seatbelt, was ejected but closer to the accident. The truck landed upright in the median ditch and there was an ATV in the back of the truck (which also had a RV trailer). The ATV landed underneith the truck supporting the trucks rear end. The passenger was under the truck and had about 1 ft of clearance.

He was quickly immobilized and moved.

What bothers me most about these types of incidents is when there are two passengers and one is DOA the other always asks how his friend/wife/etc is doing.


I am not sure of the point of this post, more just to get it off my chest. Thanks for listening.

[Red_Devil]

again is this the place to post topics like this? next time i think you should leave the graphics out

[FireEMTGuy]

Red Devil I have had enough of you and your posts. If you don't have anything useful to input in a post or a forum DONT POST AT ALL!!!

Have you ever been trained in CISD/CISM or participated in a CISD? Obviously not. One of the core points is that you talk about the incident instead of holding it inside where it will only get worse.

I think I will quote you on this one:

If you dont enjoy my comments then dont read my replies to the forum.

Go use your "20+ years of vertan experiance" and post elsewhere!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


(If you had any real experience you would have something useful to comment instead of your usual negative POINTLESS posts.)

[LFD_FF17]

I agree with fireemtguy about red devil your getting really annoying and there was a warning about graphic content so if it bugs you why the hell did you read it?


as far as being supportive i am not a firefighter so therefore have no expirience with any of that so i dont know what to say either then im sorry you had to go through it but you know as well as i do that its part of the job and it was the first but this expirience will just help you get past the next one better, because there will be another one.

Firefighterkid

[wannabe]

No, you're absolutely right to be talking about this with your peers FireEMTGuy. I haven't seen anything of the like but could only imagine how hard it must have been.

I give you credit for being able to carry on in such a professional manner and get the job done that needed to be done. That what sets you guys apart. I also give you credit for using the CISD process. Deal with it or it will deal with you.

Another good thing that can come from a post like this is for us who think they would want to get into this profession. Makes you take a real hard look... ask yourself if you could handle the situation as well.

My best to you,

[Michael13]

I also agree with FIREEMTGUY. Most of us have expierenced an incident like this. I have been to many. And talking about helps. I personallly dont want to type them out for others I dont know to read. But someday I might. And if I do I dont want a guy like Red Devil to comment where its not needed.

"again is this the place to post topics like this? next time i think you should leave the graphics out"

My quote.
Again and again throughout this website Red Devil has been a problem. next time i think you should be left out.

[TiSme]

Fortunately I have never had to go to a call of that degree yet. A really good friend who got me introduced to the hall I now volunteer at had a similar call in that they had to collect body parts from a pedestrian vehicle accident on the highway.

He went throught the CISD process and he was told the same thing. Talk about it, control it or it will ruin you. He's still doing this job and loving it. I talked with him about it several times. It helped him to deal with it. Did I like it ...... well it wasn't my first choice in conversation. But it helped him and that's what counts.

We are all family in this service and family helps each other out. Hang in there and stick with the program, I know it helped my friend and if the time ever comes that I need it I hope it's there for me to.

Good luck and stay safe.

[Hart]

The only way to get it of your mind is to talk about it. I just finnished doing my 8th DOA this weekend. For some people it takes longer and for some it doesn`t bother them as much you will know for on the next bad call if you got it out of your head if not you have go and talk to someone about it before the third one.The person who keeps it inside is the one I worry about the most.
Hart

[FireEMTGuy]

Thanks for the support guys.

We had another breif meeting last thursday, week after.

Family of the guy brought us a card and a gift basket, nice gesture but you could see the pain they were still in. :(

Im back home this weekend but with all the snow in Alberta I am sure they are having a busy time.

[hrecruit]

hey bro,

Its normal too feel the way you feel your human.
just remember you didn't cause this accident your just there to help ( just another day at the office as a friend told me)

[Whitewater_419]

Originally posted by Red_Devil
again is this the place to post topics like this? next time i think you should leave the graphics out

Yes, this is the place to post topics like this.

We are firefighters and are expected to deal with situations like this.

Given that witnessing a decapitation or any other incident involving massive trauma to the body will be disturbing to those who witness it, it does indeed help to know there are others who have "been there, done that" who will know what you're talking about.

Finally, posts like this serve as a warning to those reading these forums in the hopes of being a firefighter: It's not all 'guts and glory' - people get hurt, people get killed and it's not always pretty - you have to know that you are capable of dealing with these realities *before* becoming a FF and not after, when your crew is depending on you to be a part of the team.

FireEMTGuy: Thanks for posting this - Glad you could get it off your chest and keep on truckin' !

-Marc

[BUSS]

i had my first rollover this past saterday. 1 outa 2 was lucky, he walked away but the other (the driver) was back boarded and brought to the er, then flown to a larger facility. realy an eye opener to see how an injury can change your life. she had a broken neck. so she couldnt move anything below it. "fun stuff"

[iamvff]

WOW...I just logged on and I can't believe what I just read. Sorry for being new to this and already complaining, but I seriously believe this RED_DEVIL guy is not even a member of a fire dept. I don't think that any member who claims to have that much experience would ever make a comment like the one he did. Experiences like the accident described in the original post can be a life altering experience. There have been people quit their careers, ruin their families, or worse because of the emotional stress some go through witnessing something like this. I am by no means an expert, and only have experience with my own brigade and the stuff we have dealt with, but I definately have time to listen. If anyone on this board needs a ear ( or eyes re:e-mail) to talk to just call. You will never recieve a cut down from me!!!
Be safe, Sorry for the rant.
iamvff

[shaneb]

I cannot believe the response that this guy Red Devil posted. I really don't think he's a fire fighter either. Maybe he's 30 year old High school drop out working as a fry guy in some burger joint, dreaming of being a responsible caring member of the firefighting community. Last year I attended a mva with dual fatalities it involved alcohol, no seat belts and a transport on remote section of highway. I wish I had of known of this web site at the time of this mva. It would have it easier to deal with, talking to people with the same experiences. I know what your going through going over the accident scene over and over in your head. If you want to chat about it drop me an email. You will start to think about it less and less.

[JGallagher]

This is the forum to post stuff like that in. I am luck enough to not have had a trauma like that yet. The worst I have had it dead burned live stock. Sheep to be more specific. It botherd me. I know some will say that it is not the same as people but I tell you that it was bad. I can still smell the dam stuff and see it. I am sorry for your experiance FireEMTGuy. I know that it can be tough. My father a Police Officer of almost 30 years has seen his share. He was also a paramedic. He was also a member of the citys PTSD team. He told me never have one of your own debrief you!!

Now to Red_Devil. Grow up, we have seen your post else where and dont enjoy lots of them. This is the place to talk about that stuff!!

[iamvff]

How to deal with it?
Everyone as different ways of dealing with issues like this. Probably the one thing that is universal in dealing with any of the stresses of any job, including critical incident stress, is to talk to someone.....anyone you know that has a sympathetic ear and an open mind. Although you will receive the most benefit from someone who is trained to deal with CIS, Just talking to someone you trust is a great starting point. Make sure your spouse or significant other knows what you are going through, and involve them in learning how to deal with CIS.
I have been on the VFF for 14 years now, when I joined I told the Firechief that I would not respond to any accidents because I did not think I could deal with that. My very first fire call was a vehicle fire on the highway(according to 911). When we got there it wa a single vehicle MVA. The car rode the gaurd rail of a bridge for 25 feet, snapped off most of the bridge timbers that hold up the railing (about 12x12 timbers), then went end over end several times and came to rest on the roof. The car was about one half of the height off original by the time it finished. When I jumped out of the rescue van I tripped over the intake manifold of the engine, about 30 feet away from the car. There were four girls who managed to survive this wreck, although quite banged up. Apparently the driver smashed out the windshield with a coffee cup and dragged the other 3 out of the vehicle just before it caught on fire. When we got there the tires were the only thing left burning, and the girls were laying all over the ditch. At that point in time I realized that I can't predict what calls I will end up at and made the decision to learn this trade the best I can.
It was only about 2 years ago that we had our first fatality, and we have had two more since, the last being a young mother of 2 or 3 kids. The car was broad sided and on it's side. we had to cut the husband out with his wife laying above us. This took a big tole on our guys, but the next morning we had everyone in a room, (and remember to invite the police, witnesses that may have been first on scene, ambulance attendants, they are all regular people too) and had brought in proffessional help from the city, and all went home feeling alot better. I am sure they are still lingering effects from these incidents on some of the guys, but we got through it. The moral to the story is to try to prepare yourself for any event, and make sure you are prepared for after the event. Sorry for the long story, but I hope that maybe in some small way it might help out a bit.

Have a great day,
Be Safe
imvff

[OldCigar]

I have never read this section before, BUT, from now on I will AND will tell the members of my FD to. I have over 24 years as a volly and 23 years in the Combat Arms of the Army and have seen a few DOA. Our department got its first wake up call approximately 10 years ago when we had to find and dig out a body of a young lady that most of us knew. She had gone to investigate smoke coming from a wood bark pile she was working on and fell in the hole. One of our guys while trying to find the body actually touched her bare skull when he found her (body boiled, no skin left). A friend guided me, while I operated a front end loader to dig her out. We all went home depressed BUT did not talk to anyone. One year later the man who touched her skull almost had a breakdown. My friend and I started talking and suddenly realized that it was still affecting us. That got us talking and we instiuted a hard rule. Anyone, regardless of their job has to attend a proffessional debrief the next day. Thank good we have only had to instiute it once since. I wish I had known about the site. Keep up the posts, graphics included if it helps you, and tell a person like Red Devil to f____ off. Like someone said, has he really done anything. A real thank you to Firehall forum. You are providing an invulable service.

[iamvff]

We kind of have an unwritten rule on our Dept, and everytime that we get called to an MVA I remind they guys that I am in the vehicle with about it. If we get to a scene and you realize that you will be dealing with a close freind, relative or heaven forbid an immediate family member, then stay in the truck and let the rest of the crew do what we do. If you can't stay in the truck then get as far away as you can and do traffic control.

Unfortunately, most volunteer fire dept's are in smaller communities. We have many members that have lived here all of their lives, and almost every call would potentially be someone they know. You can't always predict what and when things will happen, but you can try your best to avoid things if at all possible. There isn't a whole lot of point to this post other than, try your best to cover your fellow members butts and make sure to keep them away from an instance that may stay in their memory for life.

I was at an MVA a couple of years ago on a mutual aid call. The young male was thrown probably 50 yds from his vehicle and was DOA , so it wasn't the nicest scene, he was busted up pretty bad. When we got there, I walked over to the decised, and there was a member of the other fire Dept. standing there staring at the young man. I decided to go back and get a flashlight because it was about 3AM and dark, as I passed another member of the other Dept., he said to me " boy, thats terrible eh". I responded" ya, it's to bad" the other guy said "ya thats his dad right there" I turned around and the guy that I was just standing beside was the father of the kid killed. I immediately remove him from the scene and had one of his crew stay with him. I personally don't get to bothered by most of the stuff I have seen yet, but I tell ya, I will never forget the look in that fathers face!

I will never understand how his entire Dept. let him stay at that scene like that.

Work together, watch each others backs, don't let something like this ever happen on your Dept !!!

Be safe,
iamvff

[Tache221]

Going to calls that are gruesome is tough. Some of the guys might ask you if you're doing alright and you don't want to stand out and say it was tough while other joke about it.

We were at a call a little while back where an older woman got her head and upper body run over by a fully loaded grain truck. There was a mess everywhere. The grain truck that drover over this woman was driven by her son to top it off. The son, brother, and father were all standing about 15 feet away from her body untill we got there too. That's something you just don't forget.

Every person has their own way of dealing with traumatic events but the key is knowing what you need to do to make sure that the event has the least amount of impact on your own life so that you can keep on living.

[alilcntrygal]

I agree too...you gotta let it out. I may not be a fire fighter, but I am a retired RN...I have seen a couple of things...but gotta admit probably not like you saw. I find sharing it with people who understand is a good way of dealing with it for many people.

[Dave404]

Iamvvff has some really good points. Everyone deals with situations differently. Im not going to go into detail about the horrors I have dealt with, and some of them are very gruesome. I can however say that seeing a body doesnt affect me directly.....I dont know why, but I can usually go back to sleep. The thing that really gets my goat is how easily the injuries could have been prevented! Seat belts, DUI, distracted driving - we have no control over these issues - we can not protect everyone. My theory is NATURAL SELECTION. Because of someones stupidity doesnt mean that we need to morn them or waste time and feelings about them.

Break incidents down - what caused it, what could have prevented it, did I do everything I could. My thoughts dont even go towards the victims, I know someone died, but answering those questions fairly puts me at ease.Could I have done anything to prevent this accident.........nope, well maybe the spike belt played a part, but for the most part NOPE!

Take care, talk openly - thats what these forums are for!

[Workingfire]

Ok...

It's a shame anyone had to witness something like the incident described here. It's good to see the the CIS team is helping everyone through it. Personally, you wouldn't see me on here, what happened on that highway is between those that were there and provided care.

We need to remember that this is a public site and a friend/family member of the deceased can read any of the posts.

I'm not worried about any FH members being upset by the initial post...you were warned...I'm looking at this as more of a "respect for the deceased" issue. I guess that comes from working at a funeral home for 3 years.

However, if posting here makes things easier for you, who am I to get angry at the person reaching out for help?..we're all on the same team.

Take care of yourselves.

[Red_Devil]

Sharing with others IS VERY IMPORTANT, share it with your fellow members on your crew, with the other guys in the hall, your wife, other family members, friends BUT I dont see the need to post matters on the internet besides it being a "TROPHY STORY"

[wilderness]

RD does your but ever blow anything but smoke?

there's a trophy for yea bud.....

[irsqyu]

Sharing with others IS VERY IMPORTANT, share it with your fellow members on your crew, with the other guys in the hall, your wife, other family members, friends BUT I dont see the need to post matters on the internet besides it being a "TROPHY STORY"

I am going to agree with R_D on this, sharing with others is important, if you see a decapitation or whatever, I don't believe a blow by blow description describing the colour of brain matter is necessary, there are wives, girlfriends, members of the general public reading these posts. Firehall has given us the option to use Private Messaging, I have seen almost everything described in the forums, I have a few tragedies that stuck with me, I would, like everyone else be willing to help out, just post that you would like to talk to someone, I am sure you would get many responses in your PM mailbox.

And that's my 2 cents......:cool:

[Raker]

Red Devil..


..the initial post had a warning about being graphic. This forum is to vent and get support, not for someone like you to cause even more grief to someone who has had a bad week. I respect what you have to say but don't agree with your arguement on this topic.

[BMWags]

has anyone else realized that this thread is more then a year old?

[Raker]

I didn't notice that but since Red Devil was arguing his point yesterday I guess the debate is still open for discussion.

[dentedhead]

I didn't notice that but since Red Devil was arguing his point yesterday I guess the debate is still open for discussion.

Give him his due his response is the same now as it was a year ago.Someone else opened the door and a few went through it.

For the record I can see both points of the arguement.I dont really see the need to go into graphic detail about colours smells or whatever I think the word decapitation paints a fairly good picture.

Dentedhead

[bestcoast]

For the record I can see both points of the arguement.I dont really see the need to go into graphic detail about colours smells or whatever I think the word decapitation paints a fairly good picture.

Dentedhead
Well ive watched this thread since its inception over a year ago and I agree with DH. Getting things off your chest is huge, I understand that, but I also question the need for being so graphic. Most people on this site, myself included have seen similar or worse cases of carnage in our career's but don't feel that its neccesary to go into great detail online about it. He mentions that he did have a CIS debriefing so it obviously has been talked about and isn't being "held inside". Coming on here and going into such detail about the scene was not needed in my opinion........BC.....

[kriand]

Well the results are in.....
I have to agree with RD ,IRSQYU, Best Coast, Dented......and the others with the same view that "talking" about it with your crew/family etc is good. Posting it for everyone on thenet to see is not. Unless it is a site specifically dealing with gore.

I've seen al kinds of things in my 17 + years in the business, including a decapation of a 3 y/o ( no I'm not posting details), to your run of the mill VSA and everthing in between.

Keep your trophy calls to fire related calls that will benefit everyone.IE: a learning experience.

OK ....time for green pancakes now.

[FFWannabe]

here's the results from the Insta-poll taken in my head...

98% of the voices want to know why everyone is still talking about it!! ;)

Sue :)

[kriand]

here's the results from the Insta-poll taken in my head...

98% of the voices want to know why everyone is still talking about it!! ;)

Sue :)

And what would the other 2% like to know??????

[Scuba]

And what would the other 2% like to know??????

Something about 5 questions.......

[FFWannabe]

Something about 5 questions.......

lol... the other 2% want Scuba to answer them... lol!!!

Sue :)