Amalgamation

[bestcoast]

Just some question's for the Brother's from department's that have amalgamated in the past while. The idea has been talked about for the Lower mainland for a few years now. With 15 or so city's and municipalities packed into one area the idea doesn't seem too far fetched. However my department amalgamated with a much smaller one about 10 year's ago and the problem's that caused are still being felt today. It seem's that most large cities in Canada are amalgamating with the smaller surrounding cities so that's why i think it could be happening out here sooner rather than later. So just wondering what kind's of problem's you guys have encountered as a result of it and if you think it was a good move in the first place??

[BillyBlazes]

I am from "old" Toronto.

Amalgamation is great for the people that we are paid to protect, I believe that they are generally getting a better response now.

Some of the former boroughs have apparatus turnouts like we had in "old" Toronto for years.

The thing that killed us from "old" Toronto was the selection of a chief from former North York. He had appeared to have no idea on how a big city fire department should run.
He wanted to use small town tactics like crew rotation between trucks, decrease our training focus. He also had no concept of firefighter pride and tradition. He took away our badge numbers, took away our double breasted uniform tunics, gave us a stupid 3 digit station and truck numbering system and tried to have crews on the fireground split into pairs and given different radio identifiers.

It is going to take years for us to get morale, pride and tradition back to the Toronto Fire Department (or as he had us called Services).

[smoke286]

Billy, when you guys did your amalgamation were Volunteer stations included? I mean do they all fall under the same umbrella now?

[colin911]

No, there wasn't any volunteer stations that were included. There were only fulltime departments that were a part of the amalgamation.

[wilderness]

We live in a small rural Eastern Ontario setting, there where 2 village's and two municipalities, that surounded us. We have amalgamated into one region called Whitewater, some of it has went smooth, and some hasn't... It boils down to politics...maybe after the next round of voting for councilors it will improve, everyone still feels that they should get the same service they did before we amalgamated, unfortunantly we don,t and won't but in other ways it has helped.....

[firebabs222]

The city of Edmonton would love to amalgamate. The outside communities don't want anything to do with it.

[LFD_FF17]

Ya thats true and it pisses me off because without us they wouldnt even be there or they would at least be at a smaller size. And look at how many of them live there and work in Edmonton. If they make their money here they should pay their taxes here, instead of just mooching everything off of us.

[firebabs222]

So your saying that me and probably half of the EFD are a bunch of mooches.

[LtBlondie]

Yes what does that mean? I work in a big city that cost's a fortune to live in , I couldn't afford the taxes let alone to live there, we have been talking about joining with all the sourrounding towns close to Vaughan for at least 10 years but nothing yet, too many Chiefs and not enough indians I say.

[iamvff]

Ya thats true and it pisses me off because without us they wouldnt even be there or they would at least be at a smaller size. And look at how many of them live there and work in Edmonton. If they make their money here they should pay their taxes here, instead of just mooching everything off of us.

Hey A$$*&%$, I live in a small town, and I try to feed my kids off of the business I own in a small town, and I have to deal everyday with idiots like you who think everything in the big city is better!! Why don't you do your homework before you open your big mouth! As a matter of fact, it is because of the big conglomerates that the small towns are small towns, we loose million per year to the walmarts of the world, reguardless of where the wages are earned! Mooches??? Maybe the walmarts and canadian tires of the world could put a dollar or two of there so called hard earned money back into supporting some of these small communities that support them so well!! They gladly take it, but don't share very well! Maybe some businesses from the big city should try paying taxes in some of the small towns for a change! Did you ever think that maybe people from out of town work in the big cities because the all of the busineeses in the small towns are closing do to lack of business! Get a life looser, without the big city, we would be bigger and better in the smaller towns! Face the fact that you will never get on a paid department, because your mouth opens before your head thinks! And being that I just did the same thing, I will appologize and quit speaking now!

iamvff

[smoke286]

No, there wasn't any volunteer stations that were included. There were only fulltime departments that were a part of the amalgamation.

That makes it a lot easier, in Halifax the guys in the "old" Halifax local got screwed for a while, till the other guys caught up to their salaries

[colin911]

Toronto had such a tough time dealing with, I believe, 6 union contracts. I think it was just over 6 years that they went not having one contract for the whole amalgamation. So you would have people at the same rank, wearing the same uniform, on the same truck earning more or less than you because they were still under another contract.

[smoke286]

Jim Lee became union president of the amalgamated union immediatly afterwords didn't he

[dentedhead]

Jim Lee became union president of the amalgamated union immediatly afterwords didn't he


Jim was the first pres of 3888 if I am not mistaken.

Dentedhead

[dentedhead]

Toronto had such a tough time dealing with, I believe, 6 union contracts. I think it was just over 6 years that they went not having one contract for the whole amalgamation. So you would have people at the same rank, wearing the same uniform, on the same truck earning more or less than you because they were still under another contract.

As important as the contracts were the logistics of that amalgamation were huge.Six radio syatems,six SOGS and the arguments over whose were best, each dept with varying types of scba and equipment,I think east york fire still used the imperial system for hoses.One of the biggest sore points was making Alan Speed the chief,he was despised by most of the other depts and most of his own dept, (North York) werent too fond of him.He tried to turn it into North York Fire X 6.I had never heard so many old TO guys say they wanted out, some did go to depts where they lived.I have been out of Toronto(EMS) for 3 years so I dont know if its better or worse,Id still like to work there if I was 15 years younger.

The worst incident I saw was about 2 months after amalagamation during the snowstorm that made Toronto famous.There was a fatal fire at an old apt. on Queen street east.The 2 closest TO staions were out on calls,the next closest station was an old Scarborough station.Unfortunatly the amalgamation was forgotten and there was a delay in getting a TFD truck out.Noones fault just a pitfall of the way the amalgamation was done.It would not have made any difference in the outcome as this was a nasty fast moving fire.

Maybe one of the TO guys can update us,I remember reading a post from BillyBlazes and he seemed kinda bummed about the whole deal.How is it now Billy?

Dentedhead

[scoop422]

The funniest thing about Jim Lee's new job, he was president in North York after they left the IAFF for a provincial union.
I was hired during amalgamation and I believe that things are getting better now. The contract was a big thing.

[kriand]

Yes what does that mean? I work in a big city that cost's a fortune to live in , I couldn't afford the taxes let alone to live there, we have been talking about joining with all the sourrounding towns close to Vaughan for at least 10 years but nothing yet, too many Chiefs and not enough indians I say.

I remember reading an article on York Region Fire Depts. amalgamating about 20 years ago. Still nothing.

[smoke286]

The funniest thing about Jim Lee's new job, he was president in North York after they left the IAFF for a provincial union.
I was hired during amalgamation and I believe that things are getting better now. The contract was a big thing.

I think I heard about that, He was the guy brought the union back into the IAFF wasn't he?