to rescue baby or firefighter?

[PostmanPat]

Hi all,

Recently I had a group interview for a position as a recruit FF. I was asked a question and would like to see what you guys would have answered.

1. You enter a building on fire. There is a fallen firefighter and next to him a baby. Neither are moving. Who do you save?

2. Why?

3. If you chose the FF, you walk out of the house and the mother of the baby asks you where her baby is. What do you say?


Here are my answers;

1/2. I would take a split second to decide who would have a better chance at survival and choose them for the rescue.

Now this is where it got tricky. The recruiter told me that neither are moving and there is no way you can tell which has a better chance at survival.

I said that I would then take the baby.

When asked why I said that a FF chooses to go into a burning house well aware of the risks.

3. I would not say anything to her. I would put all my efforts into giving every chance at life for that FF I just rescued. I would let others talk to her.

Would love to hear your thoughts and answers.

I made in through the group interview so I guess they didn't take too badly to me choosing the baby.

Thanks.

[Brydon]

If I was unable to put the baby inside the firefighter's coat and take both out at the same time, my answer would be the same as yours.

At the same time, the firefighter has extra equipment on to protect him from heat and flames for a couple of minutes for the RIT team to enter and rescue.

Hard question, hard answers...

[Workingfire]

Try this...

Take the baby, call a MAYDAY to notify RIT and command of the firefighters location. Once exited, you may lead the RIT back to the downed firefighter.

If I was to make that choice at a fire scene, a MAYDAY would be called then the firefighter would be coming with me. As cold as it sounds...the infant's probably dead, and nothing we can do will change that.

That's my $.02.

[Blacknose]

A couple of questions that jump out right away.

Where is your partner?
Where is the fallen firefighters partner?
What are you doing in a fire alone?

Radio communication is a wonderful thing to bring in the troops.

That is what I look for when interviewing new personnel.

[PFD023]

Don't let the fact that there is a baby as opposed to some drugged out perv beside the firefighter complicate things. Firefighter first...in 99.9% of the cases......in my opinion.
Why? Cause it's what I was told to do in training.
What do you say to the mother? Nothing......what could you say that would make any sense or good for her to hear?
If you are in a burning building and are wearing your SCBA then it's considered an IDLH environment...not good for someone who is without any PPE.
The reality is that if you did ever come across this situation you'd be next to superman status if you were able to pull the downed FF out by yourself.....remember that 12:1 ratio for saving a FF.
Sometimes it's better to think about things in black and white...regardless of how the situation plays on your emotions...break it down into the basics.
The above is my opinion ....as a newbie....maybe the senior guys on here can chip in and help you think this through.
Hope that kinda helps......

[ghfd04]

Firefighter first.
The firefighter is one of your own, do you really want to be the guy who leaves a brother in a burning building when given the opportunity to save him?
If the mother asks, say nothing, report to your Chief and let him/her or the PR people deal with it.

[dentedhead]

Don't let the fact that there is a baby as opposed to some drugged out perv beside the firefighter complicate things. ...


Exzactly,they use scenarios like this in EMS exams all the time.The purpose in their scenarios/interviews is to test your triage skills.Simple rule,in multiple casualty dead is dead.Dead baby is always beside a semi concious 70 year old.

This case,shitty as it sounds Im taking my brother.I dont have to splain nothing to the mom.Why dint she have baby in the first place?

Dentedhead

[ve2vfd]

Well other than it's a trick question (fallen FF is alone? improbable but it happens... you are alone? that should not happen and when you find the fallen FF you radio a mayday for help pulling our your fallen bro and a rescue for the baby)

I agree with those who say your priority is to save the FF

Always remember:

1 - Save yourself
2 - Save your brothers
3 - Save civilians
4 - Save property

As for the mother, you have nothing to say to her... it's not your place as a FF to talk to civilians on the scene (leave that to officers), and she has no idea you were anywhere near her baby.

Just my 2 cents worth...

Pat

[Rab89]

As a complete newbie, my first thought was that if neither are moving the baby is probably dead and the FF unconcious. Now, remember I am uneducated, but a baby is much weaker than a grown man or woman in good shape.

[Jimmy26]

Is it your first entry into the house? What's your air level at if it's not? Are you going to be safe dragging the ff out on your own if you have below full air level?

I come from a small volunteer dept. and we don't have fancy SCBA's with built in communication. I unfortunately am going to have to leave the building to get a team in to drag out the ff if I'm low on air. Is that baby going to slow me down as I leave...no. I'm saving the baby and immediately getting a back up team in to rescue the fallen ff.

[cmollison]

Hi all,

Recently I had a group interview for a position as a recruit FF. I was asked a question and would like to see what you guys would have answered.

1. You enter a building on fire. There is a fallen firefighter and next to him a baby. Neither are moving. Who do you save?

2. Why?

3. If you chose the FF, you walk out of the house and the mother of the baby asks you where her baby is. What do you say?


Here are my answers;

1/2. I would take a split second to decide who would have a better chance at survival and choose them for the rescue.

Now this is where it got tricky. The recruiter told me that neither are moving and there is no way you can tell which has a better chance at survival.

I said that I would then take the baby.

When asked why I said that a FF chooses to go into a burning house well aware of the risks.

3. I would not say anything to her. I would put all my efforts into giving every chance at life for that FF I just rescued. I would let others talk to her.

Would love to hear your thoughts and answers.

I made in through the group interview so I guess they didn't take too badly to me choosing the baby.

Thanks.

I would rescue my brother/sister first. In most cases the baby would be already dead depending on the conditions of the IDLH. Remeber this though we did not cause the problem but we are there to fix it.

1. Your safety is number one period.
2. Safety of your brother and sisters
3. Safety of patients in the IDLH
4. Safety of bystanders outside the IDLH

Those 4 points never change on any scene we roll up on.

[MrPredictable]

Well theres a couple of variables that could affect this situation more.

Does the firefighter (whom I assume was your partner) have BA on and and are the vital signs for both the same(and what are they). If it comes down to VSA, FF has BA on and there's no close safe area (room thats been ventilated, non fire or smoke effected area). I'd radio a mayday (before checking for vitals) grab the FF first and come back ASAP with a RIT team.

[PFD023]

Well theres a couple of variables that could affect this situation more.

Does the firefighter (whom I assume was your partner) have BA on and and are the vital signs for both the same(and what are they). If it comes down to VSA, FF has BA on and there's no close safe area (room thats been ventilated, non fire or smoke effected area). I'd radio a mayday (before checking for vitals) grab the FF first and come back ASAP with a RIT team.

What kind of vitals is ya checkin fer if the FF has full PPE on?

[MrPredictable]

What kind of vitals is ya checkin fer if the FF has full PPE on?

Listening/looking for breathing, should be obvious with the BA on and depending on the environment checking for a pulse at the wrist.

[fdfish]

I would rescue my brother/sister first. In most cases the baby would be already dead depending on the conditions of the IDLH. Remeber this though we did not cause the problem but we are there to fix it.

1. Your safety is number one period.
2. Safety of your brother and sisters
3. Safety of patients in the IDLH
4. Safety of bystanders outside the IDLH

Those 4 points never change on any scene we roll up on.

CM is totaly correct. Seeing as you are by yourself, and if the downed firefighter is any where else in the structure besides at the front door, the possibility that you can get him out without putting yourslf at risk (running out of air, being caught in a potentially dangerous situation, etc.), would be small. The best course of action would be to call a Mayday for the downed ff, help the RIT by packaging the ff for removal, buddy breath if you have enough air, and then save yourself. You don't want to become part of the problem.

Well theres a couple of variables that could affect this situation more.

Does the firefighter (whom I assume was your partner) have BA on and and are the vital signs for both the same(and what are they). If it comes down to VSA, FF has BA on and there's no close safe area (room thats been ventilated, non fire or smoke effected area). I'd radio a mayday (before checking for vitals) grab the FF first and come back ASAP with a RIT team.


RIT is in place for the downed ff, not to save civillians, be they babies or not. RIT is the last line for us, cause no one else is going to come in to get us, but us!

As for talking to the mother, leave that fot the IC or Chief.

[MrPredictable]

RIT is in place for the downed ff, not to save civillians, be they babies or not. RIT is the last line for us, cause no one else is going to come in to get us, but us!


True that, I guess I was thinking more along the lines of another attack team or a backup team to go back in. Not my decision though, my decision is who to bring out (if I can even do that) and the FF comes first.

[PFD023]

Lets not kid ourselves here......if you come across a downed FF and a civilian who both need rescuing at the same time at the same call.....you'd be lucky enough to have the state of mind to be able to repeat what day it was....probably be so wound up and close to panic that HOPEFULLY when you see the bunker gear on the victim your training kicks in somewhat and you "do without thinking" and make the grab for the FF.

I won't be checking for vitals on anyone in an IDLH.....you grab and you go and you keep going.....and I'd probably be crappin my pants at the same time.....checkin for a pulse?....me thinks not.

[cmollison]

Lets not kid ourselves here......if you come across a downed FF and a civilian who both need rescuing at the same time at the same call.....you'd be lucky enough to have the state of mind to be able to repeat what day it was....probably be so wound up and close to panic that HOPEFULLY when you see the bunker gear on the victim your training kicks in somewhat and you "do without thinking" and make the grab for the FF.

I won't be checking for vitals on anyone in an IDLH.....you grab and you go and you keep going.....and I'd probably be crappin my pants at the same time.....checkin for a pulse?....me thinks not.

yup your pucker factor would be x10 and so tight you couldnt fit sweing needle up your arse. What packs to do you use in your dept pfd023? How you enjoying your training.

[AxeInHand]

There are lots of variables.

If I am low on air and alone, you save yourself. There may not be enough air for me to drag out another firefighter. One firefighter is not enough to rescue any firefighter. The best thing I can do is stay alive and tell RIT where to find him/her. Call a mayday, get RIT moving, activate PASS, grab the baby (if it is not going to slow me down) and save yourself.

If I have enough air things change and I am not leaving my brother unless my own life is threatened. Obviously call mayday and RIT immediately. If I am by myself my PASS goes on. I think my first attempt would be to secure the baby to the firefighter while I package him. I would rather break its legs and at least get a chance to assess it outside than leave it inside. Once RIT gets there I let RIT take care of my brother.

Nobody wants to leave anyone inside, and anyone who says infants don't get treated differently isn't being honest. If you can save both, do it. An infant does present the possibility of saving two lives with one drag, so to speak, but bottom line, as has been said the list of priorities is self, brother, civilian, property.

Either way it is going to be a bad day.