Need to vent...

[FFWannabe]

I hope no one minds, but I am feeling a real need to vent. I've been listening to people at my office, at the gym, in the news complaining about Canada's efforts with the Tsunami relief and it's really starting to tick me off.

Some of the things I have heard go a little like this;

"Our government was too slow to react"
"Our government needs to give more money"
"DART needs to be there right away"
"Why is Canada always the last to respond?"

Etc, etc! I would like to start by saying that if our government had just tossed money on this disaster and said, "do what you want" I would have been very disappointed. The fact that they waited and looked at what was needed and decided what to send and what to do over a couple of days, actually showed they put some thought into it. The fact that there was a recon group there by last Wednesday (5th) of 19 people to assess the situation and see where they were best needed was impressive. The Canadian government gave an initial dollar amount of 4 million, raised it to 40 and is doubling the donations from Canadians... I think that is pretty impressive.
I have a hard time listening to people go on about their own personal struggles (not that a disaster makes personal struggle any easier, but it should make it tougher to feel or at least state "poor me"). I also have a hard time listening to people complain about the government's efforts when they haven't donated anything themselves. If you are going to complain, step up and empty your pockets a little bit. We gave (my daughter and I), we don't have much to give, but we found some and we gave. We will continue to give each time we find a little extra, as the relief efforts and need for money is going to go on for a very long time.
What bothers me the most, is the "Canadians are always last to act". That drives me crazy. We all know that our government is not as rich the the US. We all know that our military is severely underfunded. We all know that if we give, give, give, our taxes are going to be raised again and that will be the next thing our great nation will complain about. This all makes me wonder, does no one remember Rwanda, 1994. Hundreds of thousands of people were being masacred by machette... there was no oil to fight over or protect, there was no political gain to be had, there was no world power to be gained, Rwanda is not a country that will ever be considered as an major ally... who do you think went in to help and who do you think was the ONLY country to help in any major way? Canada!! With little money, little personell, Canada went in there to protect the innocent and try to stop the genecide. They were not rewarded, no were they looking for reward for stepping in. We did not gain power, prestige or money from it... as a country, we simply stood up for someone, many someone's, who could not stand up for themselves without being killed. Where was the mighty US government then (no offense to Americans, it's just an example showing Canada's world support and acknowledgement the world as a global village where everyone deserves to be taken care of, even without gain)?
We have long been known as the peace keepers and I think contrary to the article on the homepage, we are already known as humanitarians. It is our nature, it is who we are as a country. We welcome in people and allow them, help them, to become part of our great country, and become our local neighbors. We also make people in other countries who need help, feel like our neighbors and that is how it should be. It's less about money and power, and more about helping our fellow man (all emcompassing man... as in men and women) and being the one to stand in and stand up when need be.

I think we need to applaud our country and it's efforts in this time of need, and stop spreading negativity. Our government may not always make the best decisions, I will not argue that, but right now it is stepping up to the plate and when all is said and done, they will have donated nearly (or over) $140 million! That is huge, plus out $100 million we as private citizens have raised... isn't that a huge number? Isn't that something? Plus DART is there, plus RCMP forensic experts are there, plus members of our Red Cross... isn't that all something to be applauded? I applaud each and every person who has donated, who has prayed, who is able to help out in any way possible. And I applaud our government for their generosity and I hope that we can all continue to give and pray until we are no longer needed. It's going to be a long clean up, and to think we're going to complain the whole time, makes me a little upset. The really sad part is, the media is going to move on to something else before the relief effort is finished and people will forget they are still needed... but that's another rant all together.

So, in this time of need, in this time of loss, can't we be positive and join together to help our world neighbors instead of being negative and complain about what's not being done? I think in this time of loss, the only thing to be is positive for their future and their re-growth... is it just me?

Thanks for reading this long and likely slightly annoying rant. I didn't know where else to put it!!!

Have a great day everyone, and be thankful we're here in this wonderful country! :)

Sue :)

[DFCSmash]

I really don't have anything to add. Well said Sue. Hope you feel better now!

[Skidz]

I will probably get some bad response to this but I would like to know how we can send this gather this much coin together so quickly for another country when we have people freezing in the streets, kids going without a home or food? We need to support other countries in times of need, but what sickens me is that out of all the complainers and donators probably 50% (just a guess) would ever give a penny to a local charity for homeless people. I know because I tried for different charity groups that I have been envolved in. Why are the food banks in Canada always looking for food?
Lets not remember to support other countries but don't leave Canadians out in the cold either. I would have to say that the Government actually was thinking with their heads for a change, and acted with everybodies best interest in mind.

[FFWannabe]

hey Skidz! Ooops.. that should have been part of my rant as well... I was having difficulties with that the other day as well. One food bank location in Nova Scotia has had to lay people off and is looking at possibly closing because it is struggling so much.. which in turn means people are going to have less resources when they need them!

I think you've made an excellent point! We do need to reach out, but we should never, ever forget the people living next door who need us just as much! My daughter and I make sure to put food in the bins in the groceries stores at least once a month, we help sponsor a family every Christmas or buy gifts for children on the Christmas Angel trees and once we get settled with the bills we are paying now, we are going to donate $40 a month to local charities to help those you have spoken of, homeless and children who are in need. It doesn't sound like a lot of money, but every little bit helps, and really, we're not so well off either, so it's a good amount for us to give... as we also donate to drives in the area when we can as well!

Excellent point!!!! Those around us are especially important, it's sad, but I think I just assumed that would be a given... but you're right, it's not!

Thanks for bringing that up!! :) No bad response for me for bringing up something as important as that! :)

Sue :)

[wilderness]

My turn.... why is we are giving so much, you want to do something important to look good liberals....how about giving the money to the Canadian military.... or better yet give to Health Care and get us some more medical help here Canada or more equipment in rural Canada... instead of 8 month waiting list for an MRI maybe a month would be good....just a thought maybe we should have stopped at the first price instead of 40 million.........


pissed off...not pissed on...:)

[iamvff]

Here is a little impartial food for thought....take it however you want...re-Vancouver TF#1(USAR) team deployment:

Pro's for sending them...
-Vancouver stands a good chance somewhere down the road to be affected by a psunami(sp?) therefore it would be excellent real life training for them to go over and lend assisstance.
-Canada is a peacekeeper country, and this would just be another feather in our cap toward earning respect throughout the world. After all...there is a reason why the Americans have Canadian flags on the uniforms and equipments. Did you know that there are companies in the States that sell Canadian kits to American tourists!
-They are a well trained task force that has been around for 10+ years and they would be useful in many areas of assistance, even outside of their field of expertise.

Con's for sending them...
-They were not requested to be sent. To go when asked is assistance, to go with out being asked is an invasion(even though it is with good intentions). If you remember at 9/11, there were people showing up with their dogs that were house pets trying to help recover bodies. The intention was terrific, but they ended up screwing things up with good intentions.
-COST- We talked about this a bit at our USAR meeting in MB. on Saturday. We were told that it would probably cost a minimum of 3 million to send the USAR team over. MB's Fire Commissioner was at a USAR convention in Singapore last year and was told that whatever equipment your team takes to another country when called upon, they do not come home with that equipment. When asked why...His response to us was"Do you really think that when these countries are that devestated, they would allow you to leave with things that they desperately require". They have lost everything. Think about it...tents, food, satellite phones, etc, etc. We just started up in MB. and we already have a million dollars worth of equipment. Not to mention you would have to give some financial support to the people going over. I don't know of to many volunteers that can take a month off of work without pay of some kind.
-If it is going to cost 3 million for a team to go over, and that team is not necessarily required, why not send $3 million dollars...you can by a hell of a pile of food and water for that kind of money.


Going because you want the training, and going because you are needed are two different things. There were at least 3 major USAR teams over there right away, they know who Vancouver is and they know when and if they will need them.

Again...just food for thought,
be safe
iamvff

[wilderness]

i was reading today its not 40 million its something like 400 million now if they gave each Canadian a share woooooooo
$10.52600 perperson thats approx shit i want my share of my wasted taxes.......

[bestcoast]

Just a question for you iamvff, what's make's you so sure that they know team's such as Vancouver's even exist in this country. And i don't think the guy's would be looking at it as just a "training exercise" these are people that want to help out just like you and me. Difference is they are trained for this.......Good point's though both pro and con........BC....

[iamvff]

Originally posted by bestcoast
Just a question for you iamvff, what's make's you so sure that they know team's such as Vancouver's even exist in this country. And i don't think the guy's would be looking at it as just a "training exercise" these are people that want to help out just like you and me. Difference is they are trained for this.......Good point's though both pro and con........BC....

The Vancouver Team has been around for quite some time now, 10+ years or so. I guess I am just assuming that they would be known in the curcuit of USAR teams as there are not a great abundance of Heavy Teams throughout the world. On the other hand, I am quite new to USAR, but it is the impression I get when I hear the Fire commissioner talk about World USAR conventions, and our involvement. It is my understanding that Canada was represented well at the convention in Singapore last year.

I must agree that I don't think the guys would be looking at it as a "training exercise", but what I meant was, if you were looking for additional reasons to justify our sending TF1 over there (another "pro"), in addition to performing the tasks that they are trained to do, it would also be an extremely valuable training experience for our team. One you could not re-create to this extent simply for practice purposes, and also one that they quite possibly could face one day in their own back yard. If their assisstance is not required, or requested, and they still think they should go, then they must be going so they can at least learn, otherwise why would they go?


I hope that makes more sense. If you find I am mistaken, please let me kow as I am new to this field and want to learn as much as possible.

Be safe,
iamvff

[bestcoast]

Those were both great post's iamvff, i just had a couple of question's is all. I do wonder though if assistance from Tf1 Tf2 or any of the team's for that matter was offered by our government in the first place. After a disaster like the one in SE Asia, i don't think the affected government's sit back and go O.K. we can ask for this team that team etc... Relief and rescue team's need to offer their assistance in the first place in order to get the go ahead (in most cases) and i wonder if due to the cost of it as you previously posted, our government didn't offer the assistance of the team's in the first place......( wow can you say run on sentence).....BC....

[iamvff]

Originally posted by bestcoast
(wow can you say run on sentence).....BC....

First of all....breathe

Thanks for the compliment.....I am pretty new to this subject, so I hope I am fairly accurate in anything I stated. As anything new, I hope to learn as much as I possibly can about USAR and I sure don't mind if I get corrected cause I'm just winging some of it to the best of my memory:( I do have to agree that relief would probably be offered by various group...you would think that they would'nt wait to be asked. The guy I saw on cbc news said that it's not that they weren't wanted, but that they weren't needed. Our fire commissioner said that Sweden, New Zealand, and I think Australia(but I'm not sure) are very large USAR teams and they go to pretty much every major disaster. Maybe thats why?? I would also guess that there would probably be some type of organization to how the situation is handled and who participates, otherwise you would have absolute kaos. It would be like 10 mutual aid dept's showing up for a house fire with no body in command, everyone just kind of doing whatever they wanted.....yikes. I am sure someone has taken control of the situation. Again...purely an assumption on my part.

Be safe,
iamvff

[JGallagher]

Well we could always go around to VFF in Canada and take 1 of each and send over to help.

[FFWannabe]

I would just like to add that I heard on the news last night that there should be a 5-6 BILLION dollar surplus this year. I think I'm going to have to look that up to be sure, because it sounds pretty hefty.... I'm gussing if this is the case that the $425 million that is being donated over the next 5 years is coming from that. I am okay with it, but I would now like to see some of that surplus put right into our military.... at least make them safe. But, of course, that's another vent all together.

Sounds like there are many other resources our country has to offer, and I am thinking more may be called upon when the situation is more secure and the re-building begins. I have heard repeatedly that forensic experts, doctors and money is what they are pleading for right now.

Thanks for being so passionate about what's going on in the world today! Whether you're for or against what our government does, being passionate about it means something! :)

Sue :)

[colin911]

Wilderness .... quote ...

"i was reading today its not 40 million its something like 400 million now if they gave each Canadian a share woooooooo
$10,526.00 perperson thats approx shit i want my share of my wasted taxes"

There's approximately 32 million Canadians .... that's a little over
ten dollars per canadian, not 10 thousand dollars.
A little bit different.

[wilderness]

i see my mistake i put the decimal in the wrong place...pardon my mistake folks...... i will take my ten dollars and buy a new caculator..... i have no problem with giving these people this money, the only problem is.... really how much of it are they really getting from all those charities collecting money for every ten dollars, what maybe 3 to 5 dollars...thats what the CNN said........ so the rest of the money goes to pay the likes of red cross staff and things.....mmmmmm

[FFWannabe]

Originally posted by wilderness
i see my mistake i put the decimal in the wrong place...pardon my mistake folks...... i will take my ten dollars and buy a new caculator..... i have no problem with giving these people this money, the only problem is.... really how much of it are they really getting from all those charities collecting money for every ten dollars, what maybe 3 to 5 dollars...thats what the CNN said........ so the rest of the money goes to pay the likes of red cross staff and things.....mmmmmm

Some one has to get the supplies there, and someone has to do the work. It's hard to fathom at times, but it costs that much to make sure these people get what they need. Also, the fuel and the aircrafts to get things and people there need to be paid. It's worth it, just ask the people of Southern Asia! :)

Sue :)

[wilderness]

We give the money maybe some of them should donate there time................

[DFCSmash]

Well, this viewpoint will probably not be popular here but here it is anyway.

This is just too "sexy" a cause for it to be held in the correct perspective. 150,000 plus dead from the tsunami, my guess about 200,000 to go from the diseases that will come from the contaminated drinking water, the rotting unfound corpses of people and animals. And yes we should help.

How many people per year die in SE Asia and Africa from malaria? Every year. Not just Dec. 26, 2004. But we don't support that in this fashion.

How about the AIDS epidemic sweeping Africa? What was the last figure you saw? And we don't support that in this fashion.

Malnutrition? Total lack of medical supplies or facilities, let alone practitioners. Where is the support?

People on huge, long waiting lists for cancer diagnosis, heart problems, and other ailments right here at home.

Our farmers and loggers putting up with bogus trade practises that threaten their livlihood and their way of life, but do we spend much on at least leveling the playing field?

People living on the street, children going hungry. There is no money for this.

And all the while a federal government that yowls about being responsible in our spending so there can be no more money for agriculture, or defense, or education or ...... .

But when this "sexy" cause came up they can find 4 million, no, wait, 40 million, no, wait, 425 million dollars to give to the cause.

So I guess what bugs me is not that we are giving 425 million to this. as much as that we can't find much for the other causes that are every bit as worthwhile, just not as good in the press.

So yes it's a good, maybe even great, thing, that we are giving about $14 for every man woman and child in this country to help with releif for the tsunami victims, but at what cost to the rest who need help here at home and around the globe? The fallout from the spending hangover may well be spectacularly ugly.

editted for spelling, not content.

[FFWannabe]

I think it's the sheer magnitude and sheer numbers in such little time and the fact that it was a huge natural disaster that struck in the matter of minutes without proper warning. I am not saying the other causes are not worth helping, because they are, but when villages upon villages are wiped out all at once and people are still missing and in dire need of medicine to prevent the survivors from also dying, there is a need for immediate action... there's a need for the world to come together and help.
The sad part of all this is, the world will forget once it feels better for helping, it sadly happens all the time. The AIDS epidemic was a big deal for a while in the late 80's early 90's, musicians were raising money, same as World Hunger, remember "We Are the World"? And then, the popularity fades and the world remains hungry and people keep dying. There are organizations out there helping everyday though, the "problem" if you can call it that, is that they don't spend money to advertise to raise money.. make sense? Doctors without Borders, Engineers without Borders, there are missionary groups all over the place. People have devoted their lives to helping others learn to read, purify water, build wells and shelters, we just don't hear about it because it's not glamorous. You'll see ads run everyday on TBS for the Christian Children's Fund... if you really wanted to help make a difference and help someone survive, this would be the long term commitment to make, solely in my opinion.
I completely grasp what you're saying, that other "causes" get forgotten. I don't think it's because the tsunami was a "sexy" cause, I think it's because it's immediate and we can see it at every turn. Once the media (CNN) starts to report on something else, the desire to help fades.

The saddest part of this is our country is sending about $600 million when all is said and done, and it's for a five year re-building plan, which I think is great, but these countries are going through approximately $350 million every three days to clean up and medicate, not even including the re-building... they will long be forgotten before they need for help has ended, just like the rest of the "causes" you mentioned.

Oh, and one last thing... the agency who advertises the most and grab's the hearts of the people the strongest is the one who raises the most money. Take for instance the Breast Cancer Foundation... they raise at least 10 times the amount for research alone that the Prostate Cancer Foundation raises and it's all because of the media... more men die of Prostate Cancer each year, then women die of breast cancer. The stats are really all quite interesting... so where do you put your money (I don't mean you particularly.. people in general)? Who is more worthy? This bothers me everyday because I don't have enough to give to everyone. It's sad when giving makes you feel guilty... but we all need to find a cause that we feel we need to help, there's so many out there.

This is so long, sorry... I'm not sure how to tie it all together so I'll just stop typing!! :)

Sue :)

[wilderness]

woooooooooooooo i'll shut up now..............

[FFWannabe]

Originally posted by wilderness
woooooooooooooo i'll shut up now..............

YOu're funny! I just re-read my post and wanted to point out that I didn't mean to sound b!tchy! haha.. I was just making some points and for sure, I don't want anyone to think I want people to stop raising money for Breast Cancer or anything else, just pointing out the vast differences in the Fund Raising efforts because of the media put behind it... as far as I'm concerned, the media is a great tool to raise money, until they decide to move on to something else more worthy or ratings... ooooh, don't get me going on that one! hahaha!

Enjoy your day guys/girls... it's going to be a yucky one here in Ottawa, snow changing to freezing rain, changing to rain... mmm, fun!

Sue :)