Response to Automatic Alarms

[LTPVFD]

Just curious as to how other departments respond to automatic alarm calls. Our duty officer responds Code 3. If duty officer has not arrived on scene and provided a size up, the first due engine will respond Code 3 as well. Duty officer usually down grades the call to a "routine response", or cancels the truck(s) altogether.

In 13 years in the fire service, I only remember one alarm response where there was an actual incident. This occurred in an art class in a high school. Some boxes were left on a ceramic kiln. When the kiln was fired, the heat caused the boxes to ignite. Fire extinguished by sprinkler system leaving a big mess of water to clean up !!

I also remember at least one other incident where the platoon chief was responding to an alarm call at the hospital. First due engine was already on scene, and confirmed the incident to be "burnt toast" in the nurses lounge. Platoon chief continued responding Code 3, and was involved in an MVA.

I think we all know the dangers of operating the big apparatus, especially when driving Code 3 (more than once I have had to tell the driver to slow down). I just wonder why we may be needlessly endangering ourselves, and our citizens by responding Code 3 to an alarm call, when statiscally over 99 percent of the alarms are false.

I have read in various fire related publications where some departments in the U.S. do not respond Code 3 to alarm calls. They were having too many accidents, resulting in too much needless property damage, and too many needless injuries and/or deaths.

Of interest, here in B.C., emergency vehicle operation is covered under the EVO section in the Motor Vehicle Act. The Act provides guidelines on how/when emergency vehicles may be operated in a Code 3 mode.

Everyone's thoughts please !!

Stay safe !!

LTPVFD

[bestcoast]

We respond to Automatic alarm's all the time. How many truck's and what response is usually determined by where the alarm is coming from. A residential alarm is one truck code three and as the building gets larger so does the response generally. Years ago an alarm at any of the hospitals was a first alarm 3 engines 2 ladders a rescue and a batt chief. Now it's two trucks and a batt chief. I agree that most of the time the alarm's are false but i've had my share that aren't. Quite a few pot on the stove type alarm's that would have been a full blown structure fire if not attended to code three. And a few times it was the real deal. A few years ago we went to alarm's at a downtown highrise and as usual no one had left the building and the bells were going off. If i recall, three truck's were dispatched and when we got off the truck their was thick black smoke and flames from the 10th floor. Upgraded to a 2nd and spent the next 20 min getting all the idiots that were still in their suites out of the building..... It would be nice if the amount of BS alarm's could be cut down but the one time you don't go, or go prepared, is the time it bite's you in the ass..........BC......

[wilderness]

We only have two trucks so both roll, if the call is determined to be nothing one truck and crew would be sent back, to the hall and the other truck will sit on scene to the alam has been reset....

[iamvff]

We respond like we would to any call!! NEVER CRY WOLF!! Unfortunately, we don't get the turn out that we would normally get because a few of the guys know which places are usually false alarms and they think...a screw it, I'm not getting of the couch for that!! I personally respond when my pager goes..reguardless of the message that comes over it! We had one on an afternoon a while ago, and 2 of us showed up!! Boy did we raise sh!t at the next meeting, beause there were guys we knew where in town. For the repeat offenders, we have talked about sending out a bill for the service, but have not et to date gone ahead with that idea.

Be safe
iamvff

[WFD999]

We respond like we would to any call!! NEVER CRY WOLF!!

Due Diliagance (Spell Checker). We also run hot to every alarm call The 1% rule, or the Murphy. That little irish bas__rd.

As to the pager problem Just put "report to firehall". Had a problem with a few being picky with calls. Ya the same ones that would always show up if grub was involved. Helped clear out some dead wood.

The AB hiway safety act allows emergency units to break err bend the laws "when safe to do so" And when responding to calls to get privledges we have to run visual and audible warnings (demands) at all times. If another unit has already called it false or a non call why continue running hot, go cold easier and safer on the whole traffic system.

[iamvff]

Even on an ordinary fire call, If we get called off, we will quite often check it out anyways, if we are already in the area. They may think they have it under control and don't want to bother us, next thing you know the pagers are going again for the same place. A lot of people think that there going to get a big fat bill in the mail when the call us (not). I don't know about elsewhere but here it is included in your property taxes (Fire..not ambulance).

Be safe
iamvff

[LFD_FF17]

I think you guys are all volunteer and I dont know if you guys do it differently then career guys do. But in Edmonton they respond to all calls code 3 unless another truck gets there first and calls them off or tells them they are not needed RIGHT away. Crews also might turn the siren off if its the nighttime and the call is in a residential area. Like I have seen them drive by my house with just lights on. I can hear them from my house when they get the call and they leave the siren on untill they turn off the busy roads on to the residential ones.

FIREFIGHTERKID

[bestcoast]

Originally posted by firefighterkid
I think you guys are all volunteer and I dont know if you guys do it differently then career guys do. But in Edmonton they respond to all calls code 3 unless another truck gets there first and calls them off or tells them they are not needed RIGHT away. Crews also might turn the siren off if its the nighttime and the call is in a residential area. Like I have seen them drive by my house with just lights on. I can hear them from my house when they get the call and they leave the siren on untill they turn off the busy roads on to the residential ones.

FIREFIGHTERKID

11 years career FF....:)

[iamvff]

Hey KID....
I am 14 years on the Volunteer Fire, and I think that is pretty much what I just said in my post !!:confused:


You know thats great that your proud of the Edmonton Fire dept's., But don't think for a minute they are better than the rest. I am pretty sure they don't think their better then the rest. All of our fires have the same range of heat and risk!! An MVA is an MVA!! Volunteer or career...You still must know your stuff.

be safe
iamvff

[LFD_FF17]

I never said that Edmonton was better then anyone. I just said how they do it here. Maybe I should just not reply to anything anymore. I just didn't know if you guys were volunteer or career. It sounded to me like most of the replies there were from volunteers so I put one that was from a city with career firefighters. And sorry bestcoast I must have not read yours.

SORRY

firefighterkid - guess I'll just shut up now before I piss more people off.

[iamvff]

Hey KID,
First of all...that wasn't me being pissed off (trust me) I would take an uneducated guess that at least 50% of the people on here are Career. Post what you want to post. Just make sure you read what others post before you reply. To me,and this is purely MY opinion, I find it annoying when someone say's something in a post, and 2 posts later someone else say's "well this is what we do", and it's virtually the same thing. If you were to read ALL of the posts carefully, and regularily, you would get to know the people on the site and reply accordingly. This is just my opinion, I'm not "pissed off", and hopefully no offense was taken on your part.

Be safe
iamvff

[firefighter26]

Originally posted by iamvff
Even on an ordinary fire call, If we get called off, we will quite often check it out anyways, if we are already in the area.

We often get automatic alarms at the Aerie Resort. We run to them Code 3 until it is confirmed a false alarm. However, even if stood down we will still show up, just to have a look for yourselves.

Interesting story, we had an MVA roll over a few years ago and while we were enroute dispatch radioed and told us we could stand down because RCMP was already on scene. So we stood down but since we were traveling in that general direction we thought we would swing by anyway.

We pulled up to a rolled over vehicle on its roof in the middle of the highway, fluids all over the road, PT laying on the side of road, bleading from his head.

Not a single sign of any RCMP units. In fact, it was 15 minutes later that they showed up. Because they stood us down, BCAS was also stood down, so we "comendeared" a transport ambulance that just happen to be going by to give the PT a ride to Duncan Hospital.


Personally speaking, if I was paying the $1000+ a night to stay at the Aerie resort and the fire alarm went off and the fire department never showed up to at least check it out, I would be a little concerned!

[cdnbacon]

We do the respond code 3 thing until it's confirmed a false alarm through the alram company, but our duty officer will usually carry on to the call and have talk with the owner. Just in case. There is talk that we will start billing for repeat offenders.

We have had a few calls where it turned out to be something. For instances we had one alarm and when we showed there was light smoke filling the house and an elderly lady who appeared unconscious in her chair. She left something on the stove and was suffering form minor smoke inhalation. Other calls have been people leaving something on the stove and leaving the house.

I know I would not want to be the person to call off the trucks because it might, probalby be someones dinner burning on the stove and then having it turn out to be a working structure.

[BillyBlazes]

We always respond lights and sirens to all calls. We treat them all the same. We do not have a code system for running calls, we always run them as an emergency. I have been on many calls that have turned out to be worse than what the original caller tells us.

A normal response for us is two pumpers, an aerial and district chief. For high hazard occupancies the first alarm will be boosted with a rescue squad, haz mat unit, high rise unit and fireboat if along the waterfront.

[Forest]

same as the rest of the depts in the world. Respond Hot until its a confirmed false, check the place out to make sure, then leave.

Unless its something serious we respond lights only at night...too many old folks around here.

We had 7 maybe 8 calls to te manor in our area in one night (I might be off by a few, I stopped counting after 5) responded hot everytime........I didnt go to work the next day

[mutts252]

being in a fairly in-the-woods setting, we don't have a code system for our calls - we respond to them all the same way. having said that, VSA and fire calls get a heavier foot on the gas pedal!

in our area (again, because it's small and fairly isolated), we just respond with lights, and only use the siren when we approach other vehicles.

last winter there was a page that went out as an 'unknown call' to a residence, so it was pretty much roll-everything-just-in-case (we only have 4 trucks)... response was the same as ever, but just a touch slower due to it being middle of the night, and 'unknown'. halfway there, they got repaged - working structure fire! needless to say they all stomped on the gas the rest of the way, and were mighty glad they didn't just send someone to 'check it out'...

when in doubt... over-compensate! you may get some grumbles for an over-response... but you'll get nightmares from an under-response.

[Firefighter1680]

We respond code 3 to all automatics with the same compliment, 2 engines, ladder, rescue and chief. The G.O.G's state that when the first in machine arrives and upon size up states nothing showing, the rest of the compliment is to still respond lights and sriens but reduce speed to speed limit..Now we all know that never happens...Yes we all go to the Automatics and it can get routine, and thats where it can bite you in the A$%..

Just last Sat. we had a Automatic come in to a seniors highrise. Driving we have oinly 6 rescuse in the city and our response area is big, so we heard the first in annouce heavy smoke - 10-34(our code for working fire). SOme of the biggest ones are Automatics and we do lots, but thats what we are there for. Now going to the same building 8 times in a night..Thats a different thread...I hear some cities in the states charge owners after a certain number of times a month?? Anyone know?

WPGFF1680

[FireEMTGuy]

We have a 3 strike system for false automatic alarms, after the 3rd strike you start paying for each alarm. Of course there are conditions as to what is considered a "false alarm" and a legit alarm, but those are for my captain to worry about! :)

Lately here there has been some debate on what to do when "stood down" (in the event it is found that a 5 year old pulled a station or a plumbers solder got to a smoke alarm. In most cases we still respond but downgrade to code 1 for the remainder of the trip. Or, depending what we were stood down for, will let the first arriving crew advise the remaining of the situation.

[lharrity]

our dept runs code 3 to all calls, if it is night time we run lights only in areas that have many houses but not alot of traffic,for blind hills, blin turns intersections, and any traffic or bad weather we run code 3. In the past we have had callback to cancel the call or say it was a false alarm but we continue the response until a ff cancels. then we stop running hot and continue responding. alot of the time we have automatic alarms that are set off due to temperature change. quite often if we have a power outage in the winter we get many fire/burgler alarms sent out because the sensors get all messed. Sometimes the alarm company cancel's them. On the same note, all calls from service stations, and schools in the area are responded to as code three until the first truck is on scene. Sometimes people think there is no fire but their is a fire in a crawl space.

[smoke286]

Fire Alarms here are treated exactly the same as a report of a structure fire. Initial response is 2 pumpers an aerial and a rescue. The only thing changes that is if it is a condfirmed false alarm, from either the alarm company or the designated contact person. Then the first responding pumper only carries on and all other units go 10-8

[dave5171]

We get our share of alarm call to. Our SOG is 2 fire station responce (Station 5 and 6) will roll until 1st truck gets on scene. Confirmed false 1 station will return to hall and the other will reset the alarms and deal with the owners. We treat all calls with the thought in mind that it could be a fire, something had to set the alarms off, whether it be moisture, faulty devise or smoke and fire.
I know of a dept in Muskoka that responed to a alarm call to a known false alarm residence. After arriving on scene nothing was showing. Firetrucks were stood down, 1 was returning to the Hall when a firefighter walked around the place to notice 1 room in the back fully involved. A 2nd call was put out for a working fire and everyone scrammbled. Some firefighters were even on scene with out there gear and had to run to the hall and get it then go back. Talk about being caught with you pants down. I always treat any call as worst case until otherwise told. Thats just a rule of thumb for me.

[HOSE_HOUND]

I think IAVFF you owe firefighterkid a real apology. From how I read his earlier post and followed it through to your comments, I can’t honestly see how you managed to take such an aggressive position to his honest observations. To further say you were not pissed off…..well, you certainly sounded so from even your additional comments. He simply made his observations as he knew them. You were the one that first brought up about volunteer departments being just as good, or even better, than some career departments. What is it with you? I also looked at his profile and noticed his birth date and his location, and figured reasonably that he’s probably never been a volunteer, and it’s pretty safe to say he isn’t a career firefighter, at least yet anyway, so his comments were pretty innocent to say the least.

Why does it seem that every time I read through here on some of the form threads in firehall, where somebody makes some kind of comparison between volunteers and career firefighters, do you always have to beat your chest about your being just as good a volunteer firefighter as opposed to some career firefighters, or that volunteer departments are better, blah, blah, 24/7/365, blah, blah? Good for you! But, if you really have a problem, then get it off your chest without doing it at the expense of someone's innocent views. Maybe you should re-evaluate your own views and what you tell others before you attempt to tell others how to conduct themselves in their writing of threads. Lighten up IAVFF, we are not conspiring against you in here.

Firefighterkid, don’t let these views stop, or sour your view to someday becoming a firefighter. Hold onto to your dreams for the future and feel free to comment as you wish, and don’t let others skew your view. Have fun and good luck!

[colin911]

Why does it seem that every time I read through here on some of the form threads in firehall, where somebody makes some kind of comparison between volunteers and career firefighters, do you always have to beat your chest about your being just as good a volunteer firefighter as opposed to some career firefighters, or that volunteer departments are better, blah, blah, 24/7/365, blah, blah? Good for you! But, if you really have a problem, then get it off your chest without doing it at the expense of someone's innocent views. Maybe you should re-evaluate your own views and what you tell others before you attempt to tell others how to conduct themselves in their writing of threads. Lighten up IAVFF, we are not conspiring against you in here.

HH ... search out the thread "Who are the Professionals" if you haven't read it already.

[iamvff]

I think IAVFF you owe firefighterkid a real apology. From how I read his earlier post and followed it through to your comments, I can’t honestly see how you managed to take such an aggressive position to his honest observations. To further say you were not pissed off…..well, you certainly sounded so from even your additional comments. He simply made his observations as he knew them. You were the one that first brought up about volunteer departments being just as good, or even better, than some career departments. What is it with you? I also looked at his profile and noticed his birth date and his location, and figured reasonably that he’s probably never been a volunteer, and it’s pretty safe to say he isn’t a career firefighter, at least yet anyway, so his comments were pretty innocent to say the least.
OK, Hey FFK, sorry for rippin at you in an earlier post, I must have got up on the wrong side of the bed that morning or something! I think we have visited enough in the chat room, that you know well...there is no crap between us!! Have a good one!!
BTW...HH...I don't believe I have ever said that any firefighter was any better than any other! I have argued that the job of firefighting is the same though! Same heat, same materials, same types of calls...some have more, some are better trained, some have better equipment...but fire is fire! MVA is an MVA! We all get them, and we all deal with them!




Why does it seem that every time I read through here on some of the form threads in firehall, where somebody makes some kind of comparison between volunteers and career firefighters, do you always have to beat your chest about your being just as good a volunteer firefighter as opposed to some career firefighters, or that volunteer departments are better, blah, blah, 24/7/365, blah, blah? Good for you! But, if you really have a problem, then get it off your chest without doing it at the expense of someone's innocent views. Maybe you should re-evaluate your own views and what you tell others before you attempt to tell others how to conduct themselves in their writing of threads. Lighten up IAVFF, we are not conspiring against you in here.

Sorry, don't think I ever said we were better!? Have said we fight the same fires, MVA's etc! Sorry for pissing ya off, promise my posts will be few and far between, from now on! And when I do post, I will promise I will only post on the lighter side of things! Thanks for your point of view, look forward to meeting you in August, and yes...I am still bringing cookies!

iamvff :)

[FireChef]

In Nanaimo, for residential auto alarms they respond the closest Engine code 3 and send the next closest one code 2 (routine), If its the auto alarms at the hospital they will send Engine 1, Aerial 2, Engine 22(POC) and Rescue 2. To are big shopping mall it will be Aerial 2, Engine 3 and Engine 32(POC). The prison is usually Engine 3, Aerial 2 and Rescue 2.

Structure fires are usually the 2 closest Engines/Aerial and the closest POC.

MVA's are the closest Engine/Aerial and Rescue 2.

The volunteer fire department I was with responded to every call code 3, unless the chief beat us there and stood us down, or it was an assist with BCAS, ie lift.

[RESQTEK]

Pardon my ignorance but what is a VSA? I have seen that term used a couple times recently and I have to know.

[NBmedicFF]

Pardon my ignorance but what is a VSA? I have seen that term used a couple times recently and I have to know.

Around here it means dead...vital signs absent VSA.

Also the same as ART (assuming room temperature) or DRT (dead right there)...heh heh

[ABFF37]

In my department automatic alarms, or as we call them "catalogued alarms" get the same compliment of trucks as would a regular fire call.

That is, 2 pumps, 1 aerial, and 1 emergency rescue. Certain occupancies, for example high rises, will get a different response, with additional apparatus as needed. The only truck to respond code 3 is the district (nearest) pump, as well as any other apparatus that may be housed in that pumps hall. All other incoming rigs from other halls respond "cold" and just take a drive over. 99% of the time they are cancelled long before they get on scene.

I strongly agree though with what some of the previous posts have stated regarding the importance of a quick and efficiant response to such calls. I too have had my fair share of alarm bell calls that have been of a legitimate emergency nature, including several building fires. Vigilance is always important, and a quick response can make all the difference. :)

[ndvfd_ff33]

We're like most dept's, Respond Code 3 With generally a Pumper and Tanker.Only time we downgrade is if the Chief arrives and downgrades us.Generally then the Tanker will return to the hall and the Pumper will continue on Code 2

[bestcoast]

We have been directed by the powers that be downtown that we are to no longer reset alarm systems at calls. If there is nobody around (manager, caretaker) to reset the system the bells are left ringing. We do a check obviously to make sure there is no problem and our job ends there. Liability issues I believe. Any FD's out there that reset them still???......BC........

[BillyBlazes]

We are no longer allowed to reset any system. This has been our policy for awhile, liability issue.

We have been directed by the powers that be downtown that we are to no longer reset alarm systems at calls. If there is nobody around (manager, caretaker) to reset the system the bells are left ringing. We do a check obviously to make sure there is no problem and our job ends there. Liability issues I believe. Any FD's out there that reset them still???......BC........

[grahamswain]

we respond to AFAs depending what it is, what time of day, and if there are special risks involved. Alot of the responses have been reduced due to getting the same calls to the same places. We can only silence alarms but not reset them, same as BB, liability issue. But this said the response to large building complex is far from what it should be, its all to do with money! the less calls you have the bigger the chance of getting rid of pumps etc.

[fire44]

We never reset alarms. We will silence but not reset. If the alarm is left in trouble or the cause of the alarm cannot be determined, we will leave the Property Rep with a Responsability Notice. The notice basically leaves all liability with the Property Rep, and keeps our hands clean.

Fire44

[bestcoast]

We will silence but not reset.

Forgot to mention that we do silence as well, just not a reset. But this policy is still new and was long overdue as usual in Vancouver....:rolleyes:........BC...........

[irsqyu]

We send a normal first response to an Automatic Alarm (3 pumps, ladder, Platoon Chief). If it is an alarm activation with no further calls confirming a fire, only the pump in the district responds with lights and siren.
The remaining units respond code 1. When the first unit arrives and it doesn't seem serious the remaining units will stop and stage at their present location until they are cleared! The only exception is if two or more units are responding together from the same station, they will all use lights and sirens to avoid confusion to the motorists!

[shaneb]

In our district we have a primary school that is good for a couple of false alarms a month! Fire Comm pages out the career hall and two volunteer halls. The career respond and are usually the first on scene we roll hot untill they confirm false alarm. At night it's lights untill traffic or an intersection is approached, then we hit the noise makers.

[hrecruit]

will send one rig code one and second rig code 3. and we reset alarms as well.

[ABFF37]

We send the district pump (closest pump to the call) lights and sirens. All other apparatus just drives over. The only exception to that is like irsqyu said, if there are multiple pieces of apparatus in the hall with the district pump, and then all of them will respond lights and sirens.

An automatic alarm call gets a response from 2 pumps, 1 aerial, and 1 rescue. Certain occupancies may get more rigs assigned to them, for example certain high rises that may get an extra pump and an extra aerial.

Once the primary pump arrives and checks out the problem, they can return all incoming apparatus if they are not needed. Or conversely, if they find a problem they can upgrade the incoming rigs to a full emergency response. This system has worked very well for us. It keeps more apparatus in their district, and results in fewer rigs being tied up at false alarms. This is accomplished basically because rigs can be placed back in service once the problem has been checked out, and because those rigs have just been driving over, typically they're not two districts over by the time they get cancelled. The end result is that often they are cancelled while still in their district, therefore that area never really has a "gap" in it. Simmilarly if these rigs are needed, a quick upgrade to emergency mode sees them arrive in a matter of minutes.

As far as the actual alarm systems, as long as no problem is found, and the system is deemed to be in good repair, we will reset them. If the alarm can't be reset because of system problems, or because of maintenance being done on it, or other work in the building that may cause it to go off again (say like welders working in an area with hard wired smoke detectors) then we will leave the system in alarm or trouble mode and silence it.

If this is the case we have an official set of paperwork, and special documents that are attached directly to the alarm panel. These have to be signed by a building owner, supervisor etc. and it basically puts these individuals in charge of the building as far as setting up a fire watch, and also makes them responsible to have the system restored and to notify us when it is back online.

The information from these forms is inputted into the fire report done by the officer in charge, and if the alarm system isn't restored within a reasonable amount of time...the building owner may get a phone call or a visit from their district fire inspector.:eek:

AB

[dentedhead]

Most alarms in our area get a pump,ladder and platform.

We will silence but not reset.We also have a responsibility form that is signed.The building is then left in the care of either the keyholder or whoever is responsible for he building at that time.

Dentedhead

[irsqyu]

Most alarms in our area get a pump,ladder and platform.

We will silence but not reset.We also have a responsibility form that is signed.The building is then left in the care of either the keyholder or whoever is responsible for he building at that time.

Dentedhead

Ah!! the old CYA form!

[MFDFF33]

Musquash, we'll send a full response; until the first unit or someone with a portable arrives to advise otherwise. Now full response for us is 3 tankers (or as we call them our Engines) and the Heavy Rescue, now I live a just outside of our response area and I'll go and pick up our Pickup truck when responding so I have radio communications with the other responding trucks and keep going until turned around. Most of our alarms come from Pt. Lepreau... which thank God have only been false alarms. I'm waiting for the day it's not... because we will have a very small response because who wants to go to a Nuclear Plant on fire.

Now for Saint John Fire, a Fire alarm; Residential or Commercial will get a full response... 2 Engine Companies, 1 Rescue, 1 ladder (or the Quint depending on where in the city) and 1 District Chief. 1st company in will advise the others, and then usually cancel them depending if it's false or something minor that they can handle.

[rescuechris]

Well, just came back from an alarm call.... 4ppm HCN (that's nitric acid)... tones dropped about 2 minutes into the shift. It's gonna be one of those nights.

Respond code 3... noise makers all the way.

btw, it was a false alarm

[rescuechris]

Well, as predicted it was one of those nights.... 2 more calls for alarms in operation. all false. Only action was some flooding thanks to the rain/snow/freezing rain/wet snow/more rain, etc......

[Rookie_101]

my vollie dept has at least 1 false alarm a week from the auto. alarm system at the planer mill across town, usually someone on cigarette break standing too close to an open door l: whoever can reports to the hall and since i live next door to our chief we roll together (im not brown nosing, my pick-up just wont usually start in time );) we report to scene, reset alarm, call off trucks & go back home. not always a false though, major structure fire a couple of months ago.

[North_of_60]

When we get an Automated Alarm, The Chief (me) responds Code 3 in the Chief's Truck. If I am going to be delayed or have any concern at all, I will page out the Firefighters. We will roll Pump 1 first and then either Pumper 2 or the Ambulance depending on the call (and on who responds). We had the alarm in one of the hotels go off the other day with nothing showing on any enunciator pannel, as to location. The pumper was paged out and we did a full primary and secondary search for the cause fo the alarm. Nothing was found so we attempted a reset with the property rep and it held...Just a ghost in the system. One of the problems that I am finding up here is the fact that many of the building owners have no idea how to work the fire pannel and/or sprinkler system, so I end up helping them out with thier resets etc when they get an alarm.

When I worked at the Provincial Psych Hospital in BC, we (emergency services) had a Coquitlam Fire Department Radio. We would respond to the alarm and if we could locate the source of the alarm, we would radio dispatch and let them know so that the responding Engine could downgrade to routine, but they always still came to check. It was a good system and when I was there we had a really good relationship with the FD which was benificial to everyone. We always did the silence and reset on the pannels.

Stay Safe,

North of 60

[firefighter26]

Old department we rolled to the alarm with a full crew. If the company/hotel (mostly the aerie resort) called, we would still go, but routine (no lights or sirens).

Not sure about the new deparment as I have not attended an automatic alarm yet... though, from what I understand they roll code three unless stood down, but still show up to check reguardless.

my pick-up just wont usually start in time

So you drive a dodge? :D

[Rookie_101]

haha.. no a '90 ford ranger actually

[irsqyu]

haha.. no a '90 ford ranger actually

Gotta keep those Rangers away from swampy areas, just ask Scuba, lol

[Hotelsecurity]

Last month Montreal began a system of fining building owners for false alarms caused by defective alarm systems. The first one is free. The 2nd costs $250.00, the 3rd $750.00 & $2,700.00 for everyone after that.

This scares the heck out of me. I know what is going to happen. Owners (probably off the record) will order their security or maintnenance staff to verify an alarm BEFORE calling the fire department.

In Montreal a response for a high rise hotel is 3 pumps, 2 aeriel devices, a protection unit & a chief.

i have read about the following in north america & spoke to firefighters during a recent trip to Belfast Northern Ireland: reduced response to unverifed alarm calls.

What do you firefighters think of this? I want to suggest it to my city council instead of the fine system, which I'm afraid is going to get someone killed.

[PNEFD]

Granted I'm in a small town, not a large city, but we find that the fine system works well. We use a the "3 strikes" system. 3 false alarms, and a fine will be issued. We are somewhat flexible, depending on the situation though. 3 in a year, you probably won't get fined, a shorter time frame, and you probably will.

It also depends on the situation. For example, a patient hitting the pull station multiple times, (it's happened!), won't get a fine, considering it's not exactly an everyday situation.

I think using fines with a little flexibility or good judgment is the way to go.

[itsnotahobby]

I think that you will find that most cities have a fine system in place. I don't know exactly how yours is worded but I know that ours as well as most others I've heard of are to deal with things like building owners not taking care of their systems. I have run multiple calls to the same building in the same day and they have not been charged because they were doing something about the false alarm. They may have contacted their alarm company and were awaiting them or something to that effect. It is meant more to go after the owner who has a problem with their system and knows it yet does nothing to correct it.

[CKL958]

I think that you will find that most cities have a fine system in place. I don't know exactly how yours is worded but I know that ours as well as most others I've heard of are to deal with things like building owners not taking care of their systems. I have run multiple calls to the same building in the same day and they have not been charged because they were doing something about the false alarm. They may have contacted their alarm company and were awaiting them or something to that effect. It is meant more to go after the owner who has a problem with their system and knows it yet does nothing to correct it.


I agree with this thought if the call has been put in not charging someone, but take it one step further. Have the owner call the monitoring company. Put the system on test. Have the owner post a fire watch - this is a temporary situation. Leave the panel active, and have the person on fire watch investigate any alarms that occur until the alarm company arrives. There is no use tying up the fire dept resources for multiple false alarms due to equipment problems like these.

[cmollison]

My buildlings gets at a minimum 6 trucks (including) a district chief I believe. Our smokes alarms are all on a soft bypass 24/7 and we invetisgate all smoke alarms piror to 7pm because the buildings are all occupied (30 000 permanement tenants). We go to floors below and walk up and check the door for signs of smoke and heat. After 7pm though we call the fire dept. My stats show that most of our smoke alarms happen during the day when the buildings are occupied. We have a min of 11 security staff and two fire inspectors/emergency response team on site during the day and 2 dispatchers.

Here is a question for the guys on the floor. I was wondering your SOPS regarding going to the floor in alarm at a high rise. Do you always take an escort up or a staff employee? I had one incident where the fire dept packed up a staff member and took them to the floor in alarm because the main transformer couldnt be found. The only reason why I am asking this because as an employer my staff do not have the PPE to protect themsevles and how many fire dept go two floors below and walk up. I'm implenting in our SOP's that we just hand the keys over to the fire dept when they arrive on site.

And yes the fire dept has come by and done a pre-plan with a DC and PC for each building and the PATH system.

[itsnotahobby]

My buildlings gets at a minimum 6 trucks (including) a district chief I believe. Our smokes alarms are all on a soft bypass 24/7 and we invetisgate all smoke alarms piror to 7pm because the buildings are all occupied (30 000 permanement tenants). We go to floors below and walk up and check the door for signs of smoke and heat. After 7pm though we call the fire dept. My stats show that most of our smoke alarms happen during the day when the buildings are occupied. We have a min of 11 security staff and two fire inspectors/emergency response team on site during the day and 2 dispatchers.

Here is a question for the guys on the floor. I was wondering your SOPS regarding going to the floor in alarm at a high rise. Do you always take an escort up or a staff employee? I had one incident where the fire dept packed up a staff member and took them to the floor in alarm because the main transformer couldnt be found. The only reason why I am asking this because as an employer my staff do not have the PPE to protect themsevles and how many fire dept go two floors below and walk up. I'm implenting in our SOP's that we just hand the keys over to the fire dept when they arrive on site.

And yes the fire dept has come by and done a pre-plan with a DC and PC for each building and the PATH system.

We go two floors below and then walk up.

I can't see taking building personnel up until after there is a check to make sure there is no danger. Also I couldn't ever see packing said person up. If the building has an uptodate fire saftey plan that is done correctly, this problem should be able to be avoided.

[cmollison]

We go two floors below and then walk up.

I can't see taking building personnel up until after there is a check to make sure there is no danger. Also I couldn't ever see packing said person up. If the building has an uptodate fire saftey plan that is done correctly, this problem should be able to be avoided.

Thanks for the response. When you respond to high rise that has 24/7 staff on site like security does your crew or captain retrieve the building keys from security or the fire safety plan box and operate the elevators yourself?

[itsnotahobby]

Thanks for the response. When you respond to high rise that has 24/7 staff on site like security does your crew or captain retrieve the building keys from security or the fire safety plan box and operate the elevators yourself?

Yes. We are responsible for everything when we get on scene.

For example an alarm at the hospital will scene our Platoon Chief accessing the key box and then handing them off to the first in team. Many times security will already have investigated the problem, but we still investigate with our crews. Once we have investigated we may call for security at that location in the event that they are needed at that time.