PASS Devices

[resqteacher]

Hey gang,
I just finished reading an article about PASS Devices on another firefighting website, and the information was something I've never even thought about before.
Where are most of our PASS devices located? If we're lucky enough to integrated units, their on the front of our SCBA harness and if they are non integrated, we still wear them on the front, clipped to the SCBA harness right?
Where do you think that device will end up (most likely) if we are incapacitated for whatever reason - under us!
A captain in Michigan was killed this week when he got lost in a house fire and when they found him, he was collapsed on top of his functioning PASS alarm which was inaudible.

They article (by Chief Billy Goldfedder) suggested repositioning our alarms - possibly to the top of our shoulder or our sides. He also suggested that if you're using integrated alarms, dust off those old snap on devices and wear them too.

I'll leave those decisions up to you and your departments, but I just wanted to forward some interesting info that might help in the future.

[wilderness]

Without the bullets this doesn't help us...i need proof, find me that web site please please please

[bfrd22]

We have always had ours on the side of the waist strap of the SCBA

[LTPVFD]

Our PASS alarms are attached to one of the straps on the SCBA. We are looking at upgrading to integrated PASS alarms.

Wilderness - the article Resqteacher is talking about is on the Firehouse.com website. It is by Chief Billy Goldfeder, and is entitled Cause for (PASS) Alarm.

Some of the points advocated by Chief Goldfeder are:

- More reliable so the false activations are less frequent.

- More water and fire resistant (Hint: where we work has lots of water and fire/heat conditions).

- Have multiple "sounding points" so if we do fall on one side, the other sounder alarm can be heard.

- Even louder alarms.

All would make the chance of rescue much greater if you were to go down. :)

Stay safe !!

LTPVFD

[wilderness]

Simply put, everyone should be bringing this to his captains attention.....

[Rescue78]

Rescueteacher.

A note on intergrated Pass. I'll speak for Scotts, but I believe most are like that.

Even though the buttons for the Pass alarm are on the remote gauge, that does't mean the actual device is there. The speakers and motion sensors are located in the back at the base of the harness. So the problem you are describing in my opinion is only true with the stand alone units.


As far as wearing a stand alone unit even though you have an intergrated PASS ----------come on!!!!!! I think Chief Goldfeder should get familliar with NFPA 1981 and 1982.

[wilderness]

All of our pass are stand alone's...funny we went and checked a few packs and since moved them to a higher point..... if nothing else he has us thinking....

[Toxic]

Originally posted by resqteacher

They article (by Chief Billy Goldfedder) suggested repositioning our alarms - possibly to the top of our shoulder ...

We are not fortunate enough to have pass alarms in our hall. But I have used them before. I can see the problem of falling on it when a guy goes down - scary. I don't know that I would choose the top of the shoulder as the new location though for concerns of hearing damage for the wearer. The side seem to make sense though.

[bcfire]

We don't have pass alarms either. You just hope somebody knows your ass is in there! BCFIRE

[resqteacher]

I"m sorry, my screen must be messed up, it kinda looks like the last two replies to this thread wrote that they don't have PASS alarms in their halls!
I'm hoping that I've had too much Dr. Pepper to drink tonight and that there aren't actually Departments still out there not using PASS devices at all!
I'm very sad to see that your safety isn't a very high priority - through no fault of your own I assume.
I mean, even the departments in the US who have yet to go to bunker pants and hoods, still wear PASS devices!
My prayers are with you guys should anything go wrong. And don 't get me wrong - I know PASS devices haven't been around since the beginning of time, and that firefighters put out fires without them for a hundred years - but they also put out fires without SCBA's too. Doesn't make it right!
My point is - the technology is there - they're not expensive - there's no excuse.
Good luck to you and your fellow brothers and sisters. Be safe.

[DFCSmash]

We've got 4 here. Enough for 2 interior attack crews or one and one backup crew. They're on the 4 paks in our rescue. Hope to get a couple more of them this year. and next. and so on until all packs have them. Funding can be an issue, but hey, we can work it out. Unfortunately to some extent, when you have to chose between someone getting new gear or even part of a set and another PASS alarm (and I know the costs aren't comparable) when they all come from the same line on the budget, the PASS alarms seem to take a back seat. Not an ideal situation, but a real one.

So I take some solace in the fact that it is 4 more than we had in 2002.

[wilderness]

If you don,t have a PASS device you should... thats part of health and saftey....... they aren't that much money so you don't buy 12 you buy 6 its a start and a damn smart one at that........ the last thing we need in this day and age is... a firefighter caught somewhere in a building, or hurt an unable to make it out.... with a pass you just improved your chances if its making noise we can find you...if your quiet its pretty hard to find someone who isn,t making noise.........

[Michael13]

We got em, but who ever turns them on??? I know I don't, you forget to. But I never have had to make an extremly dangerous advace into a structure. Onyl serched a house twice for victims, and it were small fires that first in crew took care of with 1/2 gallon of water, we just serched house for anyone enjoying the smoke. Integrated PASS are nice, but we have manual.

[resqteacher]

For sure. Integrated PASS are ideal, but we don't have them yet either. I don't disagree though, that stand alones are often forgotten about - I think we've all done it.
I guess that's were safety officer/accoutability/entry control has its place, to help us keep our wits about us and remember that our number one priority is going home.:)

[colin911]

Before we upgraded to integrated pass alarms, our manual alarms were pre-attached to the truck and as soon as you left your jump seat, they were automatically activated. No good having a pass alarm if it ain't on!!

[iamvff]

No offence guys, but you didn't turn them on???? I would find new partners to enter the house with, because the ones you are going in with aren't watching your ass!!! The last thing we do before entering a structure is to take a walk around your partner and check for safety issues EG: no skin showing, air tank full, pass alarm activated etc, etc. Please do yourselves a favor and make sure you use them!!

BE SAFE!!!!
iamvff

[wilderness]

All of our packs are in Case's and the PASS is attached as soon as you lift it out it is activated......... look around must be someway of attaching them......

[mutts252]

:eek: :eek: :eek:
no PASS alarms?!
oh god.
i don't think you could convince me to go in without one (and having it on!)... ok sure they can be annoying because you have to shake them the odd time... but i'd much rather do that every single time than get klonged on the head by a piece of falling something-or-other and nobody know that me and my buddy are both out cold.


Originally posted by colin911
Before we upgraded to integrated pass alarms, our manual alarms were pre-attached to the truck and as soon as you left your jump seat, they were automatically activated. No good having a pass alarm if it ain't on!!

our are similarly set up - they're stand-alone units, and we try and keep the tethers tied to the SCBA cases (we don't have jumpseats) so when you pull the pack out, you get a nice friendly BEEP BEEP to remind you to keep moving once in a while.

if this system doesn't work for you - work it into your IC procedures! give your PASS alarm key to your IC at the same time you give him your 'active' tag... then when you come back to tell him you're out of the building, he has the key right there for you. :D

[Squamish-FF]

MSA's DragonFly stand alone PASS units are decent with a tag line on them, so when you pull away from the seat they automatically fire-up. I have used them at my current FD and the one before. They are relatively cheap and work well.

We just replaced all our BA's in the dept, to MSA Firehawks and they all have air integrated PASS units on them, so no forgetting to turn them on or turning them off accidently.

My old dept had Survivair Panthers that had air integrated PASS units plus a cool new feature, a second redundant pass unit (light and sound) on the back of the pack that went off with the front.So if you fell onto one blocking the sound and light the second one was still going. I beleive it was going to be part of the new NFPA regs for the BA's.

Regardless of brand, options etc, we all should be using a PASS unit. Price isn't really an excuse anymore.

Stay Safe

[Squamish-FF]

MSA's DragonFly stand alone PASS units are decent with a tag line on them, so when you pull away from the seat they automatically fire-up. I have used them at my current FD and the one before. They are relatively cheap and work well.

We just replaced all our BA's in the dept, to MSA Firehawks and they all have air integrated PASS units on them, so not forgetting or turning them off accidently.

My old dept had Surviair Panthers that had air integrated PASS units plus a cool new feature, a second redundant pass unit (light and sound) on the back of the pack that went off with the front.So if you fell onto one blocking the sound and light the second one was still going. I beleive it was going to be part of the new NFPA regs for the BA's.

Regardless of brand, options etc, we all should be using a PASS unit. Price isn't really an excuse anymore.

Stay Safe

[kriand]

I don't know that I would choose the top of the shoulder as the new location though for concerns of hearing damage for the wearer. .

????? Hearing damage vs cooking or suffocating in a fire??I know what I would rather have.

[MFDFF33]

I can't imagine not using a PASS, really they aren't that bad, soundwise, we have manual ones which our safety officer or accountability (depending on man power) won't let us enter a fire scene without turning them on. I find having just on top by your shoulder is one of the best places... and if it does go over because you're not moving much, just shake it a bit and it'll stop. I find it hard to believe that some departments don't actually have some. Right from day 1 I was shown what a PASS was and how to turn it on and off. I strongly suggest that this should be a part of your B.A. ours are kept on all our Front Line B.A.'s to ensure that everyone has one that's entering the scene.

[DFCSmash]

On my first day I was told about PASS too. Pull the pin, Aim the nozzle, Squeeze the trigger, Sweep the base of the fire! ;)

PASS Alarms however were a goodly number of years later in showing up.

[MFDFF33]

On my first day I was told about PASS too. Pull the pin, Aim the nozzle, Squeeze the trigger, Sweep the base of the fire! ;)

PASS Alarms however were a goodly number of years later in showing up.

Nice DFC, I meant the Devices though, see I've only been around the Dept. for 3 years now. So I'm not sure when they came into play, but the Devices we have on our extra packs or the ones we have for our training packs look like they've been around for years... so maybe they used a different name for it and my Training officer was just calling them PASS devices as well.

[Buckster]

PASS device, man-down alarm........I'm sure there are all kinds of names for them.....all our BA have them, on the shoulder strap.....are they ALWAYS used? No, but its getting hammered in more and more these days.....I even get guys to turn them on for vehicle fires.....creatures of habit....