AED/Defibrilator Voltage

[prmdc_girl91]

Sorry...ANOTHER question.
What do AED's shock at?
And defibrilators...biphasic are...120 and 200 J?
Thanks

[dentedhead]

Sorry...ANOTHER question.
What do AED's shock at?
And defibrilators...biphasic are...120 and 200 J?
Thanks

Monophasic is extinct(almost),AED typically fire at 150,200 or 360.There is constant debate about high current vs low current but they have similar morbidity rates.

Most defibs that i have used at the low end are 200.Again even in manual defibrilation ther are also two schools of thought on starting point.

Dentedhead

[CKL958]

Don't want to nitpick here, but something isn't jiving with me here.

The initial question was about the voltage, then the op references joules.

Joules are a measure of power, not voltage. Power is calculated by multiplying the voltage and the current together. To get your 200 joules (or whatever the defib is shocking at) you would multiply the voltage and the current of the shock together. Methinks the voltage woudl likely be high, and the current quite low... DH?

[EMS_Sask]

old school mono phasic are 360j

and if your an Advanced you can change er up....manual....

[dentedhead]

Don't want to nitpick here, but something isn't jiving with me here.

The initial question was about the voltage, then the op references joules.

Joules are a measure of power, not voltage. Power is calculated by multiplying the voltage and the current together. To get your 200 joules (or whatever the defib is shocking at) you would multiply the voltage and the current of the shock together. Methinks the voltage woudl likely be high, and the current quite low... DH?

I may have presumed she meant joules.I only recall voltage being discussed when it came to power source and battery charging.

If she did indeed want the voltage delivered in a shock....NFI.Thats why im a fireman now:confused::p

Dentedhead

[cmollison]

Most AED's deliver all shocks at 200 except for manuals.

[CKL958]

I may have presumed she meant joules.I only recall voltage being discussed when it came to power source and battery charging.

If she did indeed want the voltage delivered in a shock....NFI.Thats why im a fireman now:confused::p

Dentedhead

Fair enough. Bothj were referenced in the original post. I do some electrical work with the full time gig, and voltage and joules weren't jiving together

[guitarmedic87]

I was under the understanding that Life Pack 500s that we use at our station shock at 200-300-360J's and the Life pack 12s that I use at work are the same 200,300,360,when not in manual mode.

[guitarmedic87]

Is it possible it defers from province to province??

[prmdc_girl91]

Don't want to nitpick here, but something isn't jiving with me here.

The initial question was about the voltage, then the op references joules.

Joules are a measure of power, not voltage. Power is calculated by multiplying the voltage and the current together. To get your 200 joules (or whatever the defib is shocking at) you would multiply the voltage and the current of the shock together. Methinks the voltage woudl likely be high, and the current quite low... DH?

Yes sorry I phrased that wrong. Thanks to everyone who was able to read past my mistake!

[dentedhead]

Is it possible it defers from province to province??

No your numbers ^^ are correct,the difference is what device is in use,the manual units are all adjustable so shocks can be given per circumstance ie cardioversion.

The AEDS may only shock at one preset and not stack the rest of the shocks.The semi AED can also be set manually but not in the same way as a manual defib.

Dentedhead

[cmollison]

I was under the understanding that Life Pack 500s that we use at our station shock at 200-300-360J's and the Life pack 12s that I use at work are the same 200,300,360,when not in manual mode.

Every province or Medical Director is different but more AED's are delivering the same joule amount every shock. Recent studies have shown that when you increase the shock amount over a period of time more damage is done to the heart muscles with little or no gain. Where has if you deliver the same amount joules at 200 it is just as effective without all the damage if it does occur. So when AMECA's show up and dip into their bag of goodies the patient has a better chance of leading a better life without as many complications.

This is why they also changed shock protocol to 2 minutes of CPR, shock, 2 mins CPR, shock, 2 mins of cpr, shock, cpr, cpr, cpr.

[FFEMT51]

i'm pretty sure that ours deliver 200 joules on every shock. they are biphasic

[CKL958]

Yes sorry I phrased that wrong. Thanks to everyone who was able to read past my mistake!

Sorry - everyone has one of those things that bugs them - my fulltime field deals with electricity, and when ordering, stuff like that is quite important (It can make the difference between stuff running properly, and a big BANG!)

[guitarmedic87]

just talked to my base hopsital and asked about this. Apparently each base hospital can set what they want their medics shocking at. Typically most base hospital are the same or close but I guess there can be some variation.

[FireEMTGuy]

The American Heart Association and ACLS tend to be the most commonly followed guidelines for cardiac protocol.

They have a bad habit of tossing the official ruling off to the manufacturer's recommendations. Zoll, Medtronic, etc all have their own recommendations when it comes what biphasic joules to shock at. Monophasic is a thing of the past and kills heart muscle.

The Advanced Cardiovascular Life Support program which is developed by the AHA, offers a 'guideline' of 200J for biphasic defibrillation. It also outlines specifics when it comes to Cardioversion, which are derived from studies regarding certain rhythms (a-fib, stable VT).

AED's and LP12's (AED Mode) come from the factory with standard settings. When you unpack them you enter the program mode and set the default settings to your services protocol, typically set by your medical director, typically following recent studies or ACLS guidelines.

[lifepower]

An electric shock through the chest wall to the heart.

Is it useful to you!

[FFPCP]

we have our joules settings changed all the times based on updated protocols, we do manual settings for the most part. our newest is delivering a shock to children, 2 Joules/kg for the first shock and 4joules/kg for any subsequent shocks.

[iekvek]

It depends on the manufacturer and their specifications. The energy level can vary from one type to another and the goal is to obtain 'equivalent energy'. The idea is to account for transthoracic impedance (amount of resistance) and most automated, semi-automated and manual defibrillators account for this as it senses the distance and resistance between the two pads.

For example, in a Physio Control product, you might select 360 joules but you don’t actually know the amount of energy delivered due to a number of variables so it is 360 joules of ‘equivalent energy’. As it was already indicated, you can equal the level of joules through different means. (Joules (Energy) = Voltage X Current X Time), any number of combinations depending on the voltage, the current and length of time it is expelled.

It is becoming more standard practice to defibrillate once at the highest energy setting and not ‘stacking shocks’ as the higher energy level has demonstrated a higher efficacy and often results in less defibrillations to overcome the fibrillation threshold.

Check this link, it simplifies it: http://www.resuscitationcentral.com/defibrillation/biphasic-waveform/