Driving over charged lines....

[bestcoast]

O.K. nothing drives me more crazy than people driving over our lines at a working fire. Not only is it against the law it is a serious safety issue for the FF's onscene. I know that some will say that won't happen if you have proper traffic control at the scene, but i'm talking early on when the $hit is hitting the fan and the police aren't there yet. We use 5 inch supply lines and the people in Vancouver look at them as speed bump's sometimes, especially in the dowtown core when we have a multiple going. VPD actually stopped a cab driver at a fire I was at once that had just drove the front of the cab over our 5' inch and made him turn off the cab and leave it straddling the hose till the fire was struck 2 hours later. Ticket and lost revenue for him and i'll bet he'll do it again someday. If It doesn't affect people personally (the fire that is) they don't seem to give a damn and are in to much of a hurry to take the safety of other's into consideration....that's my rant folk's........BC....

[iamvff]

Pylons are cheap, you could take a few minutes and set up the road block.....although the idiots will probably drive over them also:confused: :rolleyes: I noticed at princess auto the have orange pylons that collapse for easy storage, selling for about 4 or 5 buck each.

Be safe
iamvff

[bestcoast]

Believe me iamvff pylon's do squat out here. And when a couple of rig's are laying at once, sometimes across major road's and an apartment or something is going up pylon's are the last thing on our mind. Maybe after the situation has settled a bit, but by then the hose has been driven over a few time's at the very least....the only effective traffic control is a traffic cop with a ticket book ready to go.....BC....

[iamvff]

High cal. semi automatic sniper on rooftop:eek: :p

Be safe
iamvff

[bestcoast]

Originally posted by iamvff
High cal. semi automatic sniper on rooftop:eek: :p

Be safe
iamvff

Now you're talking brother.....:D ....BC....

[iamvff]

Of course...the gun would have to be registered!!;)

Be safe
iamvff

[DFCSmash]

At a fire I attended as a civilian back when I was about 17, I watched a bonehead drive over a charged 2-1/2. I also saw the firefighters on the end of that 2-1/2 lift about 2 feet in the air and come back down. They were on a roof!:eek:

Then I saw one of the local RCMP officers stop the car and scream at the driver for about 5 minutes before handing him about 5 charges under the HTA and whatever else. Burned into my memory is the cop's parting shot. "If I figured I could make attempted murder stick, you @#$%^&*@#$, I'd charge you with that too. Now get the %$#@ home before I shoot you.!" I think it made an impression on him. I KNOW it made an impression on me!:D Thing is I don't think the cop was kidding. He was pretty worked up.

That sniper idea has merit!:D

:cool:

[iamvff]

DISCLAIMER:
Any info in these posts is purely for entertainment purposes. If you are a potential sniper, or have sniped in the past, please do not feel that this is an invite to assist any emergency service personell by eliminating people that drive over charged water lines. It's a joke...it's just a joke!! Thank you for your time.

:rolleyes: :D

iamvff

[wilderness]

DUDE you have some serious issues, hey wear you get those cute figures..... IAMVFF yea running over charge hoses is a pet peeve,
i turned my hose on a car one day , never found out who it was i,m sure he must have had water in his car..... the other pet peeve is when you are on the side of the road and a car is speeding towards you and your out there screaming at him to slow down and he flips you off... and says your not a cop so f u..
yea i,m finding idiots are breeding idiots.....

[Whitewater_419]

The charged hose thing is definitely a peeve with me, as well. One thing I *really* hate, though, is doing traffic control on a road scene and the bone heads who drive *up to you and then over a lawn to get around the scene*. Talk about having no respect not only for the FF's doing our job, but the victims, as well.

Grrr.

[wilderness]

i remember that call and the cops were there as well mmmmmmmmmm.........

[WFD999]

I dont know about you guys. But the odd hose wrench has "slipped" out of a hand and impacted with a car traveling through the incident area. Those darn firefighting sure get slippery when wet OOOPS.

[Michael13]

iamvff

Dont pylons need to be a certian height and have the reflective strip to be legal, if blocking a roadway? I am sure thats the casein Ontario. Highway Traffic Act.

[iamvff]

Originally posted by Michael13
iamvff

Dont pylons need to be a certian height and have the reflective strip to be legal, if blocking a roadway? I am sure thats the casein Ontario. Highway Traffic Act.

You know...I am not sure. Will try to find out though!!

Be safe
iamvff

[DFCSmash]

If I've got a fire truck sitting there with lights flashing and a situation happening, you can be damn sure the road block is legal!

About the hose key coming out of your hand, welll I've never had that happen. But my helmet fell off one day on the highway. And it left a large mark on his windshield. But he did slow down;)

:cool:

[wilderness]

would this get the point across

[WFD999]

To funny, do you think it would be Ok to take off the cannon and install ma duce ( twin fifty cals ).:D

[Michael13]

I'm sure its the law, because I went to a mutual Aid meeting with our Chief, and the hosting department had a few sales people do presentations. The one group presented a really good idea. I collapseble (sp) cone that is also damage proof. It can be driven over and it was a really good idea, but all the Chiefs in the room raised questions about it. It was too short and no reflective 3M tape on it.

[bestcoast]

In my experience I have found that the taller the pylon the further it can wedge itself up in the front end of a car and be dragged down the road...:rolleyes: ...BC....

[firecadet911]

Hey guys,

Way back when I was a fire-cadet, they showed us what were called hose ramps. They came in varying sizes and would sit over the hose so that people could drive across. Don't they have anything similar to that in your department???

[bestcoast]

I've heard of them. We don't have them. The driver's out here would miss the ramp's and drive over the hose anyways. Easier to get the Police to shut the road down.....BC...

[iamvff]

Nice suggestion (the hose ramps), but I think the point is more that people should not be driving that close to the fire scene for safety reasons. It is usually only a block away to go around! Fire ramps are more for emergency vehicle to cross through the scene if necessary. If I am wrong...then oop's sorry!

Be safe
iamvff

[bestcoast]

Originally posted by iamvff
Nice suggestion (the hose ramps), but I think the point is more that people should not be driving that close to the fire scene for safety reasons. It is usually only a block away to go around! Fire ramps are more for emergency vehicle to cross through the scene if necessary. If I am wrong...then oop's sorry!

Be safe
iamvff

I think you are right about them being for emergency vehicles only iamvff. If your near charged lines your too close....BC...

[iamvff]

Originally posted by bestcoast
I think you are right

Yeah...I finally got one right!!:p

Be safe
iamvff

[mutts252]

the other pet peeve is when you are on the side of the road and a car is speeding towards you and your out there screaming at him to slow down and he flips you off... and says your not a cop so f u..
yea i,m finding idiots are breeding idiots.....


i was an an MVA this summer doing traffic control, the damn TOWTRUCK nearly ran me the hell over... along with multiple other cars... (i was in fluorescent ORANGE coveralls with big reflective writing and neon yellow stripes, holding a damn STOP sign... ugh...) ... throughout the summer, i had repeated close calls with people seemingly trying to run me over (i stand on the shoulder, and they still aim for me).

it got to be an issue with our department, to the point where the chief told us "they make those traffic signs out of metal for a reason... try holding it at windshield level, they'll stop!"

people going through accident scenes at mach 3 is sooo friggin dangerous... and the OPP on the scene never seemed to do anything...

[Scuba]

I hear ya mutts..... I think that as emergency responders without firearms, we have big targets on us somewhere that only people behind the wheel can see....

[Red_Devil]

MUTTS252, do you know in ontario firefighters have no legal authority to direct traffic?

[mutts252]

MUTTS252, do you know in ontario firefighters have no legal authority to direct traffic?

well, technically i think you're right... but the departments in our area have had some looong talks with the OPP, and the eventual outcome has been that they said 'if you need to do it - do it. if you really need to, close the road with apparatus parked across it until we get there'. our problem is that we're in the middle of buttf__k nowhere, so it takes the OPP a hellll of a long time to show up! in the case of fatalities or anything *really* serious, we just close it until they get there - they've said they'll deal with the headaches later, because they'd rather have a complete scene to survey and measure. also for things that require air ambulance... road's gotta be closed, and we're the only ones there...

[Scuba]

RD.... out in the sticks we don't have the joys of the boys in blue rollin up to calls seconds after we arrive......and for accidents we usualy get the joys of working traffic untill they do get there (and usualy for a while afterwards as well, untill they get another officer or two on scene....)

[bestcoast]

RD.... out in the sticks we don't have the joys of the boys in blue rollin up to calls seconds after we arrive......and for accidents we usualy get the joys of working traffic untill they do get there (and usualy for a while afterwards as well, untill they get another officer or two on scene....)


"Seconds after we arrive"........not likely. We wait and wait and wait in the city too!!.....BC.....:)

[bcfire]

RD.... out in the sticks we don't have the joys of the boys in blue rollin up to calls seconds after we arrive......and for accidents we usualy get the joys of working traffic untill they do get there (and usualy for a while afterwards as well, untill they get another officer or two on scene....)
Same here Scuba, we usually have traffic for the whole enchillada.There is only one police car in our town and it can't control both sides of the scene. We do shut down what we feel is necessary. Too many FFs are run over at scenes to risk it.We go way up the road in both directions with radios/apparatus and those guys call the shots as to what gets through and in what direction. At least one lane is closed depending on the situation. If its really bad they de-tour traffic around. Take care,BCFIRE

[bestcoast]

Had a 2nd alarm fire few weeks back and had the supply line for the engine that layed up the alley ripped wide open from a "citizen's" vehicle. Aside from the regular problems that would cause some people living in ground floor condo's next to the fire were flooded out by the severed 5 inch hose. People will never get it!! As far as i know the person was not found.....BC....

[Buckster]

"Legal" or not, we gotta look after each other, nobody else will....

[ABFF37]

Had a 2nd alarm fire few weeks back and had the supply line for the engine that layed up the alley ripped wide open from a "citizen's" vehicle. Aside from the regular problems that would cause some people living in ground floor condo's next to the fire were flooded out by the severed 5 inch hose. People will never get it!! As far as i know the person was not found.....BC....

LOL that brings back memories. I was a rookie making a hydrant a few years back, and I had everything hooked up and ready to go. I checked that the pump was ready for water, and then charged the line.

Just as I've almost got the hydrant open all the way, I see this little red Ford Fiesta driving towards the 5 inch (which had been layed across the road...btw this was at 3am). So I figure, he'll see the hose, me, the pump, and the building with flames shooting out the roof and figure it out.

I look up a split second later just as his front tires drove over the hose! When his back wheels came up to the hose, they were too small and he was driving too slow to get over it...so he would get about half way over it, pop back down, and then do it all over again. All the while he's dragging the 5 inch up the street with him!

Without even thinking, I grabbed the hydrant key off of the spindle, and started yelling and running towards the guy...while waving the hydrant key in the air!! He sees me, gets this look of fear on his face, floors it, and gets the Fiesta over the thing. Man was I PISSED OFF!!! Meanwhile, these two cops who had been sent over to close off the intersection had seen this all from a half a block away as they were pulling up. They were howling with laughter after seeing the way that I went after him :D Anyways, they caught up with the guy, and gave him a stern talking to. His excuse? There was no sign telling him not to :rolleyes:

AB

[hsieh]

You're all talking about citizens running over the hoselines with their vehicles. What about when your own firefighters do it with one of the firetrucks? I've seen that happen.. unfortunately..

[Raker]

We had a house fire a few weeks back, just before Christmas. Our pump operator noticed a truck approaching our 4" supply line and motioned for him to stop. The guy hesitated for a second and then drove over the lines to his house. The pump operator approached the guy and told him that he was going to report him to police as what he did was very serious. The guy mouthed our pump operator off and they had a small verbal exchange. Ironic thing is that the guy that drove his truck over the lines had a fire in his house less than 6 months ago that our shift responded to and saved his home. Guy didn't appreciate a damned thing.

[Dave404]

We hava a bylaw in place to charge people for driving over our hoses. Its a small ticket...neighborhood of $2500. Our recent fires we had several people dumb enough to drive around barriers and the police cars a proceed over our hose. Thank you too them for buying us new hose!

Had one vehicle approaching our hose, I flagged them to stop - they slowed a little bit, slowed a little more....fist was preparing to hit window when the car screeched to a stop. It turned out to be an RCMP officer on his way to work so that he could come and assist with traffic. Explained to him that it would be in his best interest to go the other way to work today - thankyou and have a good day!

[firefighter26]

My flashlight had this problem of shooting out of my hand whenever a vehicle went through the accident scene to fast or dis-obeyed our traffic pattern. Same with my traffic sign... in fact, I often thought about sharpening up the edges on it so it would stick into the vehicles windshield!

Never had anyone drive over our supply lines, but I did have one vehicle try to dodge traffic and nearly ran over my attack line as I was approching the vehicle fire. Caught him out of the corner of my eye coming towards us so I gave him a bit of a straight stream to the windshield and he stopped dead in his tracks, then went back to attacking the vehicle fire.

One of our highway patrol officers likes to set up traffic about 1/2-1KM on either side of the accident and catch people. He also uses an officer on scene to radio to him which vehicles don't drive through the accient scene nicely, then pulls them over down the road.

In 2000 when we had the propane tanker accident, me and my crew on the second due were put in charge of evacuating the vehicles in the area. Part way down the line was a tanker full of diesel that we decided REALLY NEEDED TO GO (just down the road was a propane tanker on its side with a 4" jet of propane shooting across the street). It basically would have made the boom bigger, so he was given priority to move. We were in the process of turning him around when a white mini-van came rolling up. Kevin, one of the guys on my crew stopped him and told him he would have to wait until the tanker had turned around, he got pissed and tried to jump the road block, his van mirror hit Kevin in the back and spun him to the ground, the guy took off. I was on the radio a few seconds later, having turned my head to see Kevin being thrown to the ground, and called out the MAYDAY. We had two highway patrol cruisers there in under a minute, they got a brief report from us then took off after the van. Never did find him though. I think he pulled into one of the side streets because those officers had their peddle to the floor and were flying when they took off after him.

[Leafs Fan]

I was thinking as I read this thread about the reaction some people have stated of throwing various items at the offending vehicle. I admitt the thought has crossed my mind on occasion and it would be fun to see the look on the drivers face when his rear window explodes from a thrown hose key, But. It would be better to consider the consequences of this action. If the driver is so poorly educated as to drive over a charged hose line, will the shock of something hitting their vehicle possibely cause them to loose control and drive into a group of emergency workers? Or, the thrown item does smash a window in the vehicle showering the occupants with glass opening up a whole new legal can of worms. I would suggest it would be better to take licence plates and leave the matter to the Fuzz.:)

[ABFF37]

I was thinking as I read this thread about the reaction some people have stated of throwing various items at the offending vehicle. I admitt the thought has crossed my mind on occasion and it would be fun to see the look on the drivers face when his rear window explodes from a thrown hose key, But. It would be better to consider the consequences of this action. If the driver is so poorly educated as to drive over a charged hose line, will the shock of something hitting their vehicle possibely cause them to loose control and drive into a group of emergency workers? Or, the thrown item does smash a window in the vehicle showering the occupants with glass opening up a whole new legal can of worms. I would suggest it would be better to take licence plates and leave the matter to the Fuzz.:)

You're absolutely right...that's why I didn't throw the hydrant key at him...I just waved it in the air as I started to run after him ;)

AB:)

[firefighter26]

opening up a whole new legal can of worms.

I figure I could just say that I didn't see the car when I was horizontally dropped my flashlight desite the fact that the car was in the processes of driving through the emergency scene in an unsafe mannor.... sorta like drivers that claim not to notice the 4 fire trucks, 3 ambulances, 2 cop cars, 40 traffic cones, half a dozen road flares and 20-30 emerency workers in reflective vests...... ;)

In reality I have only "accidently" thrown my flashlight at a passing vehicle twice, and both times it wasn't the flashlight but rather the plastic flashlight cone thing that goes over it, so I don't think it would do that much damage. I have hit a vehicle with my stop sign before who refused to stop, but only because he was litterally that close to me where I could reach out and hit the car. The cop got him on the other side of the accident scene and gave him a pretty big ticket.

I recall one scene were we had to set up a custom traffic pattern. In my direction we had two lanes merging into one lane that was alternating north to south with traffic flow. One guy didn't think I was being "fair" in how I was alternating traffic, so he decided to get out of his car and get in my face about it. A quick call on the radio brought three officers down from the scene to assist me. The driver didn't like that very much, especially when the officers waived him to the side and got out their ticket book. They had him over there for the better part of an hour and I can only guess they were not talking about sports!

[mutts252]

MUTTS252, do you know in ontario firefighters have no legal authority to direct traffic?

well, i know this is an old post, BUT, i have some good info that warrants bringing it back to life...

under the Ontario Highway Traffic Act, firefights DO have the authority to direct traffic on scene!

Section 146.1:

Same – firefighters
(2) A firefighter on a roadway or adjacent to a roadway where an accident has occurred may display a traffic control stop or slow sign. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 23.

Driver required to stop
(3) Where a traffic control person or firefighter displays a traffic control stop sign, the driver of any vehicle or street car approaching the person shall stop before reaching him or her and shall not proceed until the traffic control person or firefighter stops displaying the traffic control stop sign. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 23.

Driver required to slow down
(4) Where a traffic control person or firefighter displays a traffic control slow sign, the driver of any vehicle or street car approaching the person shall approach the person and proceed past him or her and past the construction or maintenance work or scene of an accident with caution and at a slow rate of speed so as not to endanger any person or vehicle on or adjacent to the roadway. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 23.

Unauthorized use of sign
(5) No person other than a traffic control person or firefighter shall display on a highway a traffic control stop or slow sign. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 23.

so, not only are we allowed, but drivers are legally obliged to do what we tell them (ie, STOP). :)

[dentedhead]

well, i know this is an old post, BUT, i have some good info that warrants bringing it back to life...

under the Ontario Highway Traffic Act, firefights DO have the authority to direct traffic on scene!

Section 146.1:

Same – firefighters
(2) A firefighter on a roadway or adjacent to a roadway where an accident has occurred may display a traffic control stop or slow sign. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 23.

Driver required to stop
(3) Where a traffic control person or firefighter displays a traffic control stop sign, the driver of any vehicle or street car approaching the person shall stop before reaching him or her and shall not proceed until the traffic control person or firefighter stops displaying the traffic control stop sign. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 23.

Driver required to slow down
(4) Where a traffic control person or firefighter displays a traffic control slow sign, the driver of any vehicle or street car approaching the person shall approach the person and proceed past him or her and past the construction or maintenance work or scene of an accident with caution and at a slow rate of speed so as not to endanger any person or vehicle on or adjacent to the roadway. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 23.

Unauthorized use of sign
(5) No person other than a traffic control person or firefighter shall display on a highway a traffic control stop or slow sign. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 23.

so, not only are we allowed, but drivers are legally obliged to do what we tell them (ie, STOP). :)

That was a recent amendment was it not?I remember seeing a memo about it a while ago.

Dentedhead

[Scuba]

That's new as of December 2005....still I'm guessin there will be a guidance note released soon - along with this all the H&S stuff says we gotta get those funky new CSA/ ANSI 3A (?) reflective vests inorder to direct traffic......

well, i know this is an old post, BUT, i have some good info that warrants bringing it back to life...

under the Ontario Highway Traffic Act, firefights DO have the authority to direct traffic on scene!

Section 146.1:

Same – firefighters
(2) A firefighter on a roadway or adjacent to a roadway where an accident has occurred may display a traffic control stop or slow sign. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 23.

Driver required to stop
(3) Where a traffic control person or firefighter displays a traffic control stop sign, the driver of any vehicle or street car approaching the person shall stop before reaching him or her and shall not proceed until the traffic control person or firefighter stops displaying the traffic control stop sign. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 23.

Driver required to slow down
(4) Where a traffic control person or firefighter displays a traffic control slow sign, the driver of any vehicle or street car approaching the person shall approach the person and proceed past him or her and past the construction or maintenance work or scene of an accident with caution and at a slow rate of speed so as not to endanger any person or vehicle on or adjacent to the roadway. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 23.

Unauthorized use of sign
(5) No person other than a traffic control person or firefighter shall display on a highway a traffic control stop or slow sign. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 23.

so, not only are we allowed, but drivers are legally obliged to do what we tell them (ie, STOP). :)

[fireman-911]

I know that in Dieppe, they had brought in a traffic control instructor & we where all certified for 3yrs. That way if something happened, the Dept wasn't liable for not providing the training to the firefighter at the scene.

[TTFFA]

Who put on the training?