TAX DEDUCTIONS for Volunteer FF

[cfergie]

This is a copy of a letter that is going around regarding tax breaks for BC volunteer Fire Fighters. The draft letter is below as well.

"Dear fellow firefighter

Re: Income tax deduction

I am writing this letter to request your support for a significant opportunity for volunteer emergency responders.

On December 14, Liberal MP Roger Cuzner of Cape Breton introduced Private Members Bill C-273 to the House of Commons. This Bill proposes amendments to the Income Tax Act whereby a volunteer emergency responder would receive an income tax deduction of $1000 after completing 100 hours of documented service, including training and call-outs, and a $2000 deduction for 200 hours of service. During discussion it was clear that all parties supported the amendments. This Bill is very similar to PMB-241 introduced by MP Rick Casson that was narrowly defeated earlier in 2004. To make this Bill a reality and provide volunteer firefighters with this much-needed benefit, I would ask that you write to the Prime Minister, the Minister of Finance and your local Member of Parliament voicing your support for this initiative. Attached is a pro forma that may be used to send the message. The addresses appear below.

Thanking you in advance for your support.



Mike Walsh, President
Canadian Volunteer Fire Services Association"



There were some initial rumours that this deduction would only apply to those Volunteer Emergency Responders that received income for those services. I checked that the deduction would apply to all volunteer responders no matter what there source of income was.

I would encourage you to support this bill by sending out the attached letter and by passing this on to others that it may apply to



I have included some email addresses;



Prime Minister Paul Martin pm@pm.gc.ca



Finance Minister Ralph Goodale rgoodale@fin.gc.ca



Cowichan/Nanaimo MP Jean Crowder crowdj@parl.gc.ca



Victoria MP David Anderson anderd@parl.gc.ca

__________________________________________________ __

The Right Hon. Paul Martin,
Prime Minister of Canada
Rm 313 S Centre Block
House of Commons
Ottawa, ON K1A 0A6


Mr. Prime Minister

This letter is requesting your support for Private Members Bill C-273 introduced on December 14, 2004 by MP Roger Cuzner of Cape Breton – Canso.

Volunteer emergency responders help protect many communities across Canada and their worth is immeasurable. They tirelessly give their time and efforts to ensure their friends and neighbours are not alone when emergencies arise. Often these volunteers receive little or no remuneration for their unselfish commitment. It is time that these courageous individuals are recognized and rewarded for their efforts. By supporting PMB C-273 you will be letting these men and women know their services are appreciated and respected.

Sincerely


Your name and organization


__________________________________________________ __

[tmehmel]

This is for all canadians, not just BC. It would apply for all who are paid on call or not and achieve a min of 100 hours a year training and calls combined.

I think this is the third try for this.

Tom

[bcfire]

Originally posted by tmehmel
This is for all canadians, not just BC. It would apply for all who are paid on call or not and achieve a min of 100 hours a year training and calls combined.

I think this is the third try for this.

Tom

You're right tmehmel,it is the third kick at the can. If it does not pass this time that will probably be the end of it. When the original bill c-325 went down by 3 votes (my province has 4 MLAs) I called CBC and got the cat out of the bag. All 4 PEI MPs voted against it. They all responded in the media with their reasons for voting against it. All reasons given for voting it down were ridiculous. Our province is pretty much 100% volunteer and it was quite a shock to get kicked by MPs whose own families and property are protected by VFDs. See thread "volunteers demand answers" I wrote a letter to our local paper as well and they also did an editorial titled "Firefighters poorly served by MPs". After all a business man gets to write off his expenses, why not a small token for Vollies to cover their gas and repairs,clothing etc. After all ,all it means is that you get to keep a small portion of your own hard-earned money to cover expenses! Thanks, BCFIRE

[mcaldwell]

Here are some web links for this too. However, I can't find Cuzners site. Maybe one of the Maritimers can help.

Rick Casson MP (http://www.rickcasson.com)

The transcript from the last debate in the house is here:

Regarding PM Bill C-273: An act to amend the Income Tax Act regarding Volunteer Emergency Responders (http://www.parl.gc.ca/38/1/parlbus/chambus/house/debates/045_2004-12-14/han045_1755-E.htm#Int-1089353)

And the bill is here:

PMB C-273 (http://www.parl.gc.ca/38/1/parlbus/chambus/house/bills/private/c-273/c-273_1/C-273_cover-E.html)

Remember, your opinion does count! :)

[bcfire]

Originally posted by mcaldwell
Here are some web links for this too. However, I can't find Cuzners site. Maybe one of the Maritimers can help.

Rick Casson MP (http://www.rickcasson.com)

The transcript from the last debate in the house is here:

Regarding PM Bill C-273: An act to amend the Income Tax Act regarding Volunteer Emergency Responders (http://www.parl.gc.ca/38/1/parlbus/chambus/house/debates/045_2004-12-14/han045_1755-E.htm#Int-1089353)

And the bill is here:

PMB C-273 (http://www.parl.gc.ca/38/1/parlbus/chambus/house/bills/private/c-273/c-273_1/C-273_cover-E.html)

Remember, your opinion does count! :)
Rick Casson is "THE DUDE" for volunteer firefighters. As a former VFF he knows what is involved and what it costs.He knows that it is not the money,after all no-one left after bill c-325 got defeated. It is a matter of recognition for a public service that goes beyond any other. The sacrifices made by emergency volunteers are not uppermost in the public conciousness until it makes major headlines. No-one thinks of what it costs the volunteers. They watch big city shows and think that an emergency is covered in their own community and nobody pays. A businessman gets to write off all of his expenses---,fuel,insurance,clothing,meals, I could go on. A Volunteer Firefighter gets a $ 1,000 deduction only if he gets paid anything. 80% of Canada is covered by Volunteer Fire Departments. It is time all of our Volunteers expressed their opinions and got a bill passed which at best may cover our basic costs, if nothing else. Take Care BCFIRE

[bcfire]

Well the bill passed second reading. We've been here before though. Last time the liberals pulled the rug out. Lets see what happens this time. BCFIRE

[Pugfire]

On Monday 31 Oct 05 the standing committee on federal finance came to Moncton NB for public hearings.
About 30 firefighters showed up (from PEI, NB & NS) in a show of solidarity to back a presentation being made in support of C-273 by the chief of St Peters PEI fire department.
There were many chiefs and high ranking officiers, as well as ordinary firefighters.
We were well received and a very in depth presentation was made to the committee.
At our department we have been sending letters to the Prime Minister as well as our Member of Parliment.

I urge ALL firefighters to do something NOW to cause support for this bill, before it's too late. Write to the PM and your MP. Get your friends to do so too.
Call those you know in the newspaper business, they are always looking for a story about their fire and police members.

IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING TO HELP PUSH THIS THROUGH, WE WILL HAVE NOBODY TO BLAME BUT OURSELVES WHEN IT DIES.

IF YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

Be safe all.

[bcfire]

Thanks for being there Pugfire. I couldn't go (work) but I heard it was a great presentation. Our Fire marshal read Dave Rossiter's address to the commitee at our annual provincial firefighter's meeting. It was both moving and factual. Thank's Dave and thanks to all of the people who attended on behalf of Vollies everywhere.We have to try to get this thing through, but it may die yet again with another election call. BCFIRE

[rangerdave]

You guys have support out here in southern Alberta. I'm a B.C. boy originally but I think this bill will help us across Canada. I will get the word out down here to some of the other VFD in this area.

[bcfire]

You guys have support out here in southern Alberta. I'm a B.C. boy originally but I think this bill will help us across Canada. I will get the word out down here to some of the other VFD in this area.
Thanks rangerdave. This bill has nothing to do with the province of BC. It is a bill for vollies all across Canada (80% of the Canadian Fire Service). Unfortunately it is going to die yet again with the next election call. It is already the third attempt to get a small measure of recognition for expenses that volunteers pay. Every time I respond to the call, I use my gas,my car,etc. etc. A businessman gets to write off his expenses, yet he is not expected to train on his own time, drive his car,sacrifice his personal time so that he can better serve his employer. Don't get me wrong, no vollies are in it for deductions and none will quit if the bill dies. It would just be nice to see the feds acknowledge an incredible resource that they have enjoyed for free for oh so many years. BCFIRE

[vancity]

A relative of mine is senior manager of taxation in a large firm and he has given me the low down on tax breaks...for those who are interested it is as follows. You should not have to include the first $1,000 of compensation received for volunteer services. If you receive more than $1,000 you will need to make sure whether or not all compensation has been included on your T4, if so you should be able to deduct $1,000. If it is excluded by the municipality you will just have to report what is on the T4.
Subsection 81(4) provides that for 1998 and subsequent taxation years, an emergency service volunteer shall not include the first $1,000 of amounts received in a year from a government, municipality or public authority for the performance of the volunteer services. The provision applies to persons who volunteer their duties as ambulance technicians, firefighters, or in the search or rescue of individuals or in other emergency situations. The $1,000 exclusion from income replaced the former $1,000 deduction from income found in paragraph 8(1)(a) . The exclusion from income is easier for municipalities and other employers to administer because they do not need to issue tax information slips for someone earning a nominal amount in this capacity.
Note that the exclusion in subsection 81(4) does not apply to remuneration received for emergency services carried on by a person in their capacity as an actual employee. In this regard, if requested by the Minister, the payer of the amount must certify that the recipient was at no time in the relevant year employed or otherwise engaged in connection with the services, otherwise than as a volunteer.

[Pugfire]

Glad to see that the support is spreading, pity that we have a slim chance of getting it. Thanks Jack Layton and Steve Harper. Hope your forcing an un-needed election on us makes you happy, but then, WHAT DID I EXPECT from self serving politicos. I swear that Harper will simply die from self satisfaction if he ever got to be PM., he'd simply dehydrate himself one orgasm at a time. And as for Jackie boy, he's living in a dream world now as it is . "I, AND I ALONE HOLD THE DESTINY OF CANADA IN MY HANDS!!!" Oh, it must be GREAT to be SO important.
As BC said, none of us will quit if it dies but sometimes I just like to dream about the look of helplessness that would hit their faces in Disneyland on the Rideau if we could ever organize a MASS pager turn-in.
Imagine the panic in Ottawa when reports started to come in that 90%+ of Canada was without fire protection, and communities big and small were demanding to know what "they" were going to do about it. It would be fantastic to see. Talk about your basic messy drawer situation.

Be safe brothers and sisters.

[bcfire]

A relative of mine is senior manager of taxation in a large firm and he has given me the low down on tax breaks...for those who are interested it is as follows. You should not have to include the first $1,000 of compensation received for volunteer services. If you receive more than $1,000 you will need to make sure whether or not all compensation has been included on your T4, if so you should be able to deduct $1,000. If it is excluded by the municipality you will just have to report what is on the T4.
Subsection 81(4) provides that for 1998 and subsequent taxation years, an emergency service volunteer shall not include the first $1,000 of amounts received in a year from a government, municipality or public authority for the performance of the volunteer services. The provision applies to persons who volunteer their duties as ambulance technicians, firefighters, or in the search or rescue of individuals or in other emergency situations. The $1,000 exclusion from income replaced the former $1,000 deduction from income found in paragraph 8(1)(a) . The exclusion from income is easier for municipalities and other employers to administer because they do not need to issue tax information slips for someone earning a nominal amount in this capacity.
Note that the exclusion in subsection 81(4) does not apply to remuneration received for emergency services carried on by a person in their capacity as an actual employee. In this regard, if requested by the Minister, the payer of the amount must certify that the recipient was at no time in the relevant year employed or otherwise engaged in connection with the services, otherwise than as a volunteer.


Yes, this one has been on the books and available for FFs who get paid money.The other bill covers all and is intended to off-set personal costs associated with being an emergency volunteer
Thanks BCFIRE

[bcfire]

As BC said, none of us will quit if it dies but sometimes I just like to dream about the look of helplessness that would hit their faces in Disneyland on the Rideau if we could ever organize a MASS pager turn-in.
Imagine the panic in Ottawa when reports started to come in that 90%+ of Canada was without fire protection, and communities big and small were demanding to know what "they" were going to do about it. It would be fantastic to see. Talk about your basic messy drawer situation.

Yes it would be fun to see. What most people (except Vollies)don't realise it that it "does" cost you money out of your own pocket to be a volunteer. Whats wrong with a small deduction to give you back a small portion of your own money to cover it! We are starting to see the extinction of rural fire departments in Canada.The problem needs to be addressed now and this is only a small part of it.The public really has no clue unless somebody speaks up. There was a firestorm for the MPs here in PEI when the public found out that they defeated the bill by voting against it when PEI is 99.99% volunteer.Guess who made sure that the cat was out of the bag!
If a similar bill should pass in my lifetime, and my MPs support it, I will be just as quick to thank them as I was to condemn them. BCFIRE

[bcfire]

If a similar bill should pass in my lifetime, and my MPs support it, I will be just as quick to thank them as I was to condemn them. BCFIRE[/QUOTE]

Another election and square -one for the Volunteer Firefighter Bill! BCFIRE

[Pugfire]

No one said this was going to be easy.
Just a Happy New Year reminder to all FFs to be safe and to GET ON YOUR MP'S CASE about this important issue. Just as soon as the confetti hits the floor and the winning member is drawing a deep breath of happy relief on Jan 23, GET IN THEIR FACE, AND STAY IN IT.

Who does more for less than the volunteer FF?

Make them realise that! Especially those whose homes and their relatives homes are served by Volunteer Firefighters.

Peace, Safety and Happy New Year to all.

[bcfire]

New Government--New Challenge.
Actually the PC party has been on side for the emergency Volunteer tax deduction from day one. We just now need to remind them, lest we be lost in the shuffle.Peter MacKay is on record with the CVFSA (Canadian Volunteer Fire Services Association) as being committed to supporting a tax deduction as well as a LODD award for families of ALL Canadian firefighters (psoc) for IAFF guys who were there.We need to remind our new government of their previous unanimous support. They will of course have to introduce a new bill in parliament in order to get it done.Write your MP gang, they need to hear it.BCFIRE

[iamvff]

Hey BC...

I have never heard of CVFSA (Canadian Volunteer Fire Services Association) before. How come I cannot find it in a search? Help me out my friend!

iamvff

[fire_code]

Hey BC...

I have never heard of CVFSA (Canadian Volunteer Fire Services Association) before. How come I cannot find it in a search? Help me out my friend!

iamvff

You are @ Firehall.com, check the Association links (http://firehall.com/listlink.php?list=association) :p(or a quick link: http://www.firehall.com/index2.php?item=5812)

[bcfire]

Hey BC...

I have never heard of CVFSA (Canadian Volunteer Fire Services Association) before. How come I cannot find it in a search? Help me out my friend!

iamvff

Try www.cvfsa.ca BCFIRE

[iamvff]

You are @ Firehall.com, check the Association links (http://firehall.com/listlink.php?list=association) :p(or a quick link: http://www.firehall.com/index2.php?item=5812)
OHHhh...I missed using my own usual advice!

thanks boss
iamvff

[five_alarm]

OTTAWA, ON - The Canadian Association of Fire Chiefs wants federal Finance Minister Jim Flaherty to include a personal income-tax credit for volunteer firefighters in his coming budget. The group says the credit should range between $500 and $2,000, depending on the number of hours volunteers spend responding to fires, other emergencies and related responsibilities such as training and equipment maintenance.

Association president Michael Eddy says volunteers are the backbone of the fire services, especially in rural and remote areas. Canada has more than 3,000 volunteer fire departments and 77 per cent of all firefighters are volunteers. The fire chiefs say the contributions volunteer firefighters make to their communities are often at personal financial cost.

Eddy says a federal tax measure providing volunteers with some financial recognition for their efforts is long overdue.

Source: news.yahoo.com (http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20060329/ca_pr_on_na/firefighters_tax_1)

[wilderness]

OTTAWA, ON - The Canadian Association of Fire Chiefs wants federal Finance Minister Jim Flaherty to include a personal income-tax credit for volunteer firefighters in his coming budget. The group says the credit should range between $500 and $2,000, depending on the number of hours volunteers spend responding to fires, other emergencies and related responsibilities such as training and equipment maintenance.

Association president Michael Eddy says volunteers are the backbone of the fire services, especially in rural and remote areas. Canada has more than 3,000 volunteer fire departments and 77 per cent of all firefighters are volunteers. The fire chiefs say the contributions volunteer firefighters make to their communities are often at personal financial cost.

Eddy says a federal tax measure providing volunteers with some financial recognition for their efforts is long overdue.

Source: news.yahoo.com (http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20060329/ca_pr_on_na/firefighters_tax_1)

show me the money.......

[fireman-911]

So, would that be on top of the provincial tax break?

New Brunswick already gives $1000 tax break.

[Scuba]

So, would that be on top of the provincial tax break?

New Brunswick already gives $1000 tax break.

Ummmm that's a federal exclusion isn't it?

[five_alarm]

EDMONTON, AB - When small fire departments have to compete in Alberta's booming economy, any tax incentives to attract volunteers are appreciated.

“The work picture in Alberta is really strong, and you've got people working out of town so you can't tell them they can't go to work,” said George Hargesheimer, fire chief of Bruderheim's 20-member volunteer department said. “None of my volunteers get paid in their pockets but they do get perks like jackets and sweaters through our association.”

The Canadian Association of Fire Chiefs has asked the new Conservative government to include a long-sought after personal income-tax credit for volunteer firefighters in its coming budget. The group wants a credit ranging between $500 and $2,000, depending on the number of hours volunteers spend responding to fires, other emergencies and for training and equipment maintenance.

Source: canada.com (http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=d30dbf4d-39a3-4745-aa5c-950949d107e1&k=36536)

[Pugfire]

We here get nothing except our personal vechile (1) liscense plates free. It would certainly add some incentive to think that we would get some compensation for the time, gas, clothes, wear and tear, and all the rest of what we "donate" to the cause.
I have sent a copy of the lead article to my MP and requested that he do all possible to help this along. Maybe if enough of us do that, they (the MPs) will realize that we are out there.

BE A SQUEAKY WHEEL.

and BE SAFE

[TinaE]

My father is the CEO for two towns, including the town I am a VFF for. As a Dept. we too have been discussing this tax deduction for the member, and have found out that there are strings attached to this deduction. For the Dept.'s whose municipality provides T-4 slips, those people will be eligable. For those of us that do not get them . . . you're SOL. If anyone has information that can help us get around this, please let me know. I think that this should be available to all FF and EMS.

[iamvff]

The way it works in Manitoba (and I am really not sure if our is provincial or federal...I thought it was federal??)Is you only get a T-4 after if you earn more than $1000 on the fire department. So the first $1K is free (no T-4) after that...you pay taxes.

iamvff

[iamvff]

My father is the CEO for two towns, including the town I am a VFF for. As a Dept. we too have been discussing this tax deduction for the member, and have found out that there are strings attached to this deduction. For the Dept.'s whose municipality provides T-4 slips, those people will be eligable. For those of us that do not get them . . . you're SOL. If anyone has information that can help us get around this, please let me know. I think that this should be available to all FF and EMS.


Let me get this straight TinaE...so if you recieve a benifit from your municipality...you are not a true volunteer!? BUT...if you receive a benefit from a provincial/federal source then you are still a true volunteer?? Careful...you may just fall off that fence your sitting on!


iamvff

[bcfire]

My father is the CEO for two towns, including the town I am a VFF for. As a Dept. we too have been discussing this tax deduction for the member, and have found out that there are strings attached to this deduction. For the Dept.'s whose municipality provides T-4 slips, those people will be eligable. For those of us that do not get them . . . you're SOL. If anyone has information that can help us get around this, please let me know. I think that this should be available to all FF and EMS.

The new bill that was introduced and died in the last three elections was for all emergency service volunteers and the ammount was dependant on time served ie 100 hrs was $1000 deduction , 200 hrs was $2,000. This has nothing to do with existing POC money.Thanks BCFIRE

[five_alarm]

HALIFAX, NS - Nova Scotia’s two opposition parties are both vowing to bring in legislation this spring that would give volunteer firefighters a tax credit.

Liberal Wayne Gaudet said he will reintroduce a bill in the upcoming session to provide a tax credit to volunteer emergency workers, such as firefighters, ambulance technicians and those who assist in search and rescue efforts. The Liberal legislation, first introduced in the spring of 2005, would give a $500 tax credit to those who perform at least 50 hours of volunteer service and a $1,000 credit for those who serve 100 hours or more.

"Volunteer emergency workers are part of the fabric of our province," Mr. Gaudet said in a news release. "Many volunteer firefighters make a lifetime commitment to provide safety and security to their communities and have more than 25 years of service to the station."

Source: thechronicleherald.ca (http://thechronicleherald.ca/NovaScotia/498471.html)

[five_alarm]

INGONISH BEACH, NS - The deputy fire chief of a rural volunteer fire department says it’s time for the province to offer tax breaks to firefighters or start paying for their services. Ervin Barron has watched the number of volunteer firefighters dwindle from 35 to four in the past few years and says the department may have to stop responding because it is too unsafe.

"Every year we do lose a few members to work, but this year it has been exceptionally bad," he said. The department, which opened 11 years ago, responds to car crashes, forest fires and 911 calls over a 40-kilometre radius from Cape Smokey to Ingonish Centre, an area that includes 3,600 residents, the Keltic Lodge and portions of Parks Canada. It is also the only department within a 40-minute drive that has the lifesaving equipment the Jaws of Life.

Source: thechronicleherald.ca (http://thechronicleherald.ca/NovaScotia/501731.html)

[chaos]

Tax deductions would be nice, but do you really think that they will solve all the woes in the volunteer fire service. Not likely.
Wouldn't it be better if there was stable and consistant funding for fire depts, so they could concentrate more on training and doing the job rather than fundraising to keep the doors open ?

Also are there too many small fire depts in small rural areas that could be covered better if they amalgamated? If you have a larger area to draw members from as opposed to more than one dept. drawing members from the same area.

Just a couple of my thoughts.

[DFCSmash]

Tax deductions would be nice, but do you really think that they will solve all the woes in the volunteer fire service. Not likely.
Wouldn't it be better if there was stable and consistant funding for fire depts, so they could concentrate more on training and doing the job rather than fundraising to keep the doors open ?

Also are there too many small fire depts in small rural areas that could be covered better if they amalgamated? If you have a larger area to draw members from as opposed to more than one dept. drawing members from the same area.

Just a couple of my thoughts.

Fair enough, here's a couple of questions for your questions. :)

Will the deductions solve all the woes? not likely. Will they solve any? A better question perhaps. But since ALL politicians in Canada receive 1/3 of their pay tax free, wouldn't it just be a nice little pat on the back to give their volley/ POC people a tiny little break too?

The matter of stable and consistent funding for training and operations is a municipal issue as laid out in what gov't. is responsible for what. The feds aren't likely to, nor I am thinking would we want them to, take on this responsibility. None of us could afford what would be mandated by the feds, including large city full time dept's.

If we amalgamate Fire Depts., in these aforementioned smaller rural areas, what will the end result be? Council will see a cost saving because they are only paying utilties, maintainence, insurance , etc on 1 hall instead of 3 or 4. So they will want to continue with the course. All government believes that bigger is better and looks for "economy of scale". Which isn't a bad thing if you live within, say 10 minutes of where they choose to locate said super fire dept., but really sucks if you were 5 minutes from the old one and are now 30 minutes from the new one.

[chaos]

I was refering to the Nova Scotia Article. Yes Municipal Government is responsible for fire depts. What I was saying is that if the provincial government were to put funding for fire depts into transfers to the municipal units specifically for fire service instead of tax breaks i think it would be more beneficial. Iwould love to get a tax break, but I have gone 24 years as a volunteer without it, so no big deal.

I am not saying amalgamating all fire depts is the way to go either, but in this province there are a great number of fire depts whithin spitting distance of each other. There are also a good number of departments with the same woes as the dept in the above article. At least that dept is admitting it.

I am not saying that any should be forced to amalgamate, but that it should be considered as an option by fire depts that are having difficulty with membership and funding. A bigger area will usually give you a bigger tax base as well as a larger area to draw members from.

As far as the closeness of the hall what if you live next door to the hall and the volunteers have to come from 10 minutes or more away to get to the hall or a neighbouring dept has to be called in because you don't have enough manpower to do the job.

[DFCSmash]

True enough, but there would of course be performance requirements to get that funding. So the municipal govt would still need to have the will to provide training dollars. So if they are only allowing say $1,000/yr for training, and the province agrees to match municipal funding, the council will only have to spend $500 and still provide $1,000. So only those depts. blessed with progressive councils would benefit. Many councils would just treat it as a gift to relieve them of half their "burden". :(

point 2, fair enough, as long as the funding and personel issues can be resolved amicably.

Point well taken on the proximity issue. We have that EXACT issue here with our #2 hall. 9 miles away and we more often than not, can be set up on scene before they are. It's a staffing issue. So council is looking seriously at eliminating the hall. Which is sad for their community, but in all honesty, probably a better solution for their protection. :(