Canadian Forces Firefighters RANT and RAVE

[firefighter7799]

So a couple of us were talking today and we decided that we would post a forum where we could Rant and rave about current issues in the CF as Firefighters. Don't get us wrong we love our job and what we do and encourage people to join as Firefighters but there are some "current events" that make us shake our heads. So everyone if you have a good rant lets get this started. lets talk Spec Pay, Equiptment, uniforms, Posting madness, Promotions all that good stuff.

[ndvfd_ff33]

This section of the forum, dedicated to CF firefighting, wasn't good enough?? :p

http://www.firehall.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=71

[Car150]

AND how about......fighting fires ?????????

[firefighter7799]

We dont get any fires

[scottmacd37]

Whats a fire?

[scottmacd37]

I know i will piss off a lot of people with my opinion and ideas, but they are mine and I will not appoligize for them.

1) Remoemove Firefighting from the Enginering Branch and join the MP's to produce a "Emergency Services Branch".

2) Remove all civilians from the Fire Service. We are soldiers and can do the job. One hall in Canada has mixed crews and there are problems.

or

3) Disband the Military Fire Service entirely and offer civilian flip to all current military Firefighters.

4) Remove FF's from CF ships and turn our positions over to other trades. I suggest the Hull techs since they work so close to us anyway.

5) Replace or horid duty uniform with a 2 piece. I don't care the colour...

I am open and willing to accept differences in opinion...but this is my opinion.

[fueler]

Are you the same arrogant cpl in Edmonton that pulled over at a Haz Mat scene and told the City of Edmonton Firefighters that you were a military firefighter and started giving them tips on how to do their job? Are you also the same idiot that walked into Macdonalds and demanded a discount because you were military? I think i know you and if you are the same person then might I add that one of the problems in the military fire service, is people like you! I got out of the military because I couldn't work with people like you. Quit thinking you know it all and quit blading the rest of your crew in the back.Start being a team player and if you can't then might I suggest a career change.














I know i will piss off a lot of people with my opinion and ideas, but they are mine and I will not appoligize for them.

1) Remoemove Firefighting from the Enginering Branch and join the MP's to produce a "Emergency Services Branch".

2) Remove all civilians from the Fire Service. We are soldiers and can do the job. One hall in Canada has mixed crews and there are problems.

or

3) Disband the Military Fire Service entirely and offer civilian flip to all current military Firefighters.

4) Remove FF's from CF ships and turn our positions over to other trades. I suggest the Hull techs since they work so close to us anyway.

5) Replace or horid duty uniform with a 2 piece. I don't care the colour...

I am open and willing to accept differences in opinion...but this is my opinion.

[ndvfd_ff33]

This should get interesting.......

*grabs some popcorn*

[scottmacd37]

I have never and I would never stop at another agencies scene and tell them how to do their job. That is both unprofessional and rude.

If you got out you had your saw a reason to do so, I have chosen to stay.
And why is it wrong to have an opinion?

I would also nicely request that if you have an opinion about me personally that you contact me personally
This post, I thought, was about the Forces.

[jim7966]

I'm just curious what removing the firefighting trade from the Engineering Branch will accomplish?

I was in the CF although not a firefighter.

As for removing firefighters from the ships what's the reasoning behind that? Other than the obvious of not having to go to sea.

I will agree with removing the civilians from the fire service. It never made sense to me to have civilian firefighters on a military base, in my case Esquimalt, when there was a firefighter trade.

For those in the trade complaining about a lack of fire activity, remember that in most civilian fire dept's the vast, I mean vast majority of calls are medical and false alarms, not fires.

[scottmacd37]

By creating an Emergency Services Trade you are taking people with simular jobs and putting us under the same bosses. You are also removing our budget from Air Command, who understandably, feel they should not pay to protect assets that are not Air Force. Which is why you have civies on Navy and Army Bases.

As for ships...you are putting FF's is a position and enviroment that we are not experenced with. Ony ships that have an Air asset have FF's..so post us on only when you have a helo on board. Make us part of the Air Crew.

In the Forces we have an extemely strong Fire prevention program. And we have the ability to inforce it quickly. We also deal with a section of the population who are trained in high stress situations. They also are all trained at the use of extinguisher and first aid...so a small fire which would panic the average citizen is handled quickly and properly by a soldier.

We also have (for the most part) very healthy and younger people, so we don't face the same health problems that most municipalities have.

Lots of false alarms though.

I'm just curious what removing the firefighting trade from the Engineering Branch will accomplish?

I was in the CF although not a firefighter.

As for removing firefighters from the ships what's the reasoning behind that? Other than the obvious of not having to go to sea.

I will agree with removing the civilians from the fire service. It never made sense to me to have civilian firefighters on a military base, in my case Esquimalt, when there was a firefighter trade.

For those in the trade complaining about a lack of fire activity, remember that in most civilian fire dept's the vast, I mean vast majority of calls are medical and false alarms, not fires.

[Profire]

I'm just curious what removing the firefighting trade from the Engineering Branch will accomplish?

I was in the CF although not a firefighter.

As for removing firefighters from the ships what's the reasoning behind that? Other than the obvious of not having to go to sea.

I will agree with removing the civilians from the fire service. It never made sense to me to have civilian firefighters on a military base, in my case Esquimalt, when there was a firefighter trade.

For those in the trade complaining about a lack of fire activity, remember that in most civilian fire dept's the vast, I mean vast majority of calls are medical and false alarms, not fires.

There is quite a difference between having the majority of your calls being medical and having no actual fire fighting experience. I am not saying that is the case with CF F/F's but that is what the other poster implied.

[scottmacd37]

I agree that we have very few actrual fire calls. This is boith a blessing and a detrement for us.
Imagine being a young firefighter entering a new and exciting trade and finding very soon that fire are very rare.
We do do lots of live fire training but nothing makes up for the real thing.

There is quite a difference between having the majority of your calls being medical and having no actual fire fighting experience. I am not saying that is the case with CF F/F's but that is what the other poster implied.

[jim7966]

There is quite a difference between having the majority of your calls being medical and having no actual fire fighting experience. I am not saying that is the case with CF F/F's but that is what the other poster implied.

Hope I'm not the "other poster". I never said they have no actual f/f experience. Don't think I am, but I just want to put that out there.

I think a lot of young f/f enter the occupation whether they be military or civilian and end up being disapointed at first with respect to fire calls. So in my opinion I don't think that's confined to the military. As I said the vast majority of calls are non fire related. There are on average 8,000 fires in the Province of Ontario every year. That's roughly 22 fires a day in a province of 10 million people. By fire I mean, anything from a pot on the stove to sunrise propane and everything in between. I see all the people on the hiring forum trying to get hired and they are applying everywhere and anywhere (completely understandable), and wonder if they really know what they are getting into when they apply to the really small departments. Just my two cents.

[firefighter7799]

All good posts and opinions. I have to say that as Firefighter on ships right now and one that enjoys sailing. I agree that we should pull firefighters off ships. We have a huge manning issue and I see it everyday out here in Esquilmalt them fighting to get guys to sail. Some of us are lucky and we have stayed on the same ship for our whole time here and although we are gone alot we at least know we are not going to get bounced around. We have made the suggestoin that we get a hall here and run it as a regular base FD and the Ships become part of our monthly maintenance and when they require Firefighters to sail they send us much like the Air det. I would'nt mind as well if they made us a Emergency services Branch then we might have the Backing to make some of the changes that need to be made. All good ideas especially the one about rolling us over as civilian DND as most bases are that way already. Edmonton as i have never been posted there but I can only imagine the pissing contest with the Civies and Mil guys. .

Uniforms- haha I dont care what they do but I think it is deplorable to go try and get uniforms issued and have none left in the system GET US SOMETHING and stop making excuses. I dont know why we dont wear the same uniform as the MPs it works, its practicle and the excuse given that we need CADPAT is crap when we deploy we get issues Combats be it Green or Tan.
We are the most desired trade in the CF, SO lets keep it that way....

[firefighter7799]

Oh as well anyone know any departments that are hiring Lol

[scottmacd37]

WOW...someone agrees with me. To bad CDS doesn`t see it that way

[hosefukr]

Oh as well anyone know any departments that are hiring Lol

I agree totally with the ship thing. One branch with the MP's would be good. I work in Edmonton and the civie's can take the place,its a hole. Our civie though is pretty good to work with so really i don't see a pissing match here. Anyways no posting this year hoping for east coast next year.
Cheers!

P.S
I can't wait for our new cad pat coveralls. We'll go from looking like airforce mechanics to army ones lol

[FFFP]

Been going through some of the post on the site and some members think that having the civilians and military working in the same hall is a problem. Well I have been at this hall for a total of 17 yrs as both military and civilian and I was here when they started the process of hiring civilians because of the work load and Ottawa would not increase our manning so they decided to hire civilians. In the case of this firehall all are ex military except for one with anywhere from 2 yrs to 35 yrs of experance. Is there problem between the military and civilians at this hall I don't think so yes we have the odd person who may resent the double dippers but I have never had any major problems working with the military members. In most cases we sit around at coffee break and chuck insults and joke around with each other, I have never had a argument with a member that I can recall. In most cases the senior FR's have nothing to do with the crews since they are all day staff and the FR's that work on the crew do the same job as the rest of the Cpl's. The reason that is was done was manpower and continuity of the fire prevention office and on crews so when there is a major posting season someone knows the vehicle to help train all of the OJT's and members who have been on ship for a few years and coming back to a firehall with new vehicles that they have never seen before. As far as a member having a issue with the civilians at the hall well some of the members know who he is and I will leave it at that. BE SAFE.

[RETmilitaryFF651]

Well gents. Like the saying, "an opinion is like an asshole, everyone has one" and mine will not change anyone's mind.

I'm not here to argue with anyone but I want to put in my two cents. I have read some of the post and I agree and dis-agree with some. One has to remember the reason we don't have that many fires on a military bases. It's because of the way fire prevention works. Let me explain... The military as a hole does not have any insurance to cover anything. Imagine the cost to cover everything...consequently, some how we have to protect the military assets and how do we do it you ask, well with fire prevention, fire extinguisher courses, fire wardens, sprinkler systems and fire alarm system, just to name a few things. That doesn’t mean that the military FF doesn’t know what their doing incase of a fire. That is why we do a lot of training, to keep the FFs prepared for the worse.

I admit it is easy to get bored in any military halls. The problem we have is the leadership or the lack there of. Now, I’m not saying to have makeshift projects but keeping your subordinates/FFs busy with jobs that pertain to the trade. A lot of FFs are bitching, moaning and dripping about the trade because of the leadership and the BS they have to do. It is too bad that young men release from the military because of this trade. When I retired last Oct 09, I made a point at my going away lunch-in not to judge the fire trade because of one FH, Not all F/H are the same.

Ships…IT WAS A HIGHLIGHT OF MY CAREER!!!! I was on HMCS Protecteur for 4 years, there is a lot of BS on a ship, I’ll give you that, but a lot of FFs that comes back from a ship tour and always remembers the good times and not the bad times. FFs did not ask to be on ships, the helicopter pilots ask for us. I read in a blog that when we are on a ship we are out of our elements. I though that we were adaptable to any situation, well ladies ADAPT, IMPROVISE AND OVERCOME. If the FFs comes off the ships, great, more FFs on bases but don’t hold your breath.

Civilian/DND FF on a military FF hall. So far it works pretty good ScottMac (I know who you are), matter of fact Ottawa is looking in to it. They might do the same thing for the rest of the halls. You can’t get rid of us that easy. LOL

Last but not least. There are a lot of pers that got out of the fire trade and went on to become “real fire fighters” (I like that. LOL) don’t forget where you got your qualifications, YES, you EX-MILITARY FF, the military paid you while you were getting your apprenticeship at CFFA and some of you are remusters from another trades like Vehicle Tech, Med Tech or other trades got paid for all your training. Ask the guys in your halls that had to pay for their FF crses, how easy and expensive it was for them. Count you self lucky. Some of you had/has it made, a posting is only 4 years than you move, tuff it out. Now don't get me wrong, I don't blame the young guys that wants to get the calls and the excitement. Do you QL3s and finish your first contract then get out of the military but don't bad mouth the trade that gave you the quals for you to become REAL FFs, (again I like that one, LOL). The fire trade gave me a great career for 21 years, I had an awesome time.

No secrets here.

Dan D. NOT THE DEP