Alberta Ambulance takeover on hold

[five_alarm]

CALGARY, AB - Pulses are on the rise among city EMS crews, as the clock ticks down to a takeover of paramedic services by the Calgary Health Region. Bruce Robb, president of the city paramedic union, said uncertainty over the April 2005 takeover, as ordered by the province, has ambulance workers nervous -- especially as not a scrap of information has been made public. "It's brought up to me on a daily basis, and it's the big unknown," said Robb. "We don't know anything about what will happen on April 1 ... we're stuck in lim-bo." The province has ordered municipal ambulance services to become a health region responsibility by April 2005, and in the case of the CHR, that means 14 separate EMS services will be joined as one. The province will allow some municipal EMS services, including those with integrated ambulance and fire services, to still operate under contract with the CHR. For Robb, who speaks for 350 Calgary paramedics and EMTs, the biggest concern is not the takeover, but what happens afterwards as the CHR struggles to maintain the same level of service.

Source: calgarysun.com (http://www.firehall.com/refer.php?url=http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/CalgarySun/News/2004/11/05/701120.html&linkid=1089&parent=news(headlines)&)

Related Story (http://forum.firehall.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1557)

[five_alarm]

EDMONTON, AB - Unions representing paramedics across Alberta say they have grave concerns about the province's plans to roll ambulance services into the care of health authorities. "The idea is to bring all the rural areas up to the service levels in cities," said Lou Arab, a spokesman for the Canadian Union of Public Employees, or CUPE. "But the province hasn't really specified what the service levels are and they haven't put out any hard figures." Rural standards for ambulance service are supposed to be improved, but CUPE worries what might actually happen is a lowering of urban standards to line the two up, Arab said. "We are concerned this plan will generally reduce the quality of ambulance service across the province. It's cause for concern for those of us living in urban areas." David Kirkham, spokesman for the Health Sciences Association of Alberta which represents rural paramedics, said there are already worries about rural ambulance services. Many rely not on paramedics but on emergency medical technicians, who can't perform life-saving emergency procedures such as intubating a patient, he said.

Source: Edmonton Sun (http://www.firehall.com/refer.php?url=http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/EdmontonSun/News/2004/12/06/767766.html&linkid=1177&parent=news(headlines)&)

[five_alarm]

EDMONTON, AB - Health Minister Iris Evans says the province may delay the process of taking over ambulance services in Alberta from municipalities because of higher than expected costs. Operating ground ambulance services could cost the province as much as $120 million a year or more, which is dramatically higher than the estimated $55 million.

"I'm not saying that (the province will back out)," Evans said yesterday. "I'm saying there are options we can look at. We can look at phasing it in or going with the areas where people are more prepared and where we believe the costs are reasonable. We just have some additional work to do."


Source: Edmonton Sun (http://www.firehall.com/refer.php?url=http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/EdmontonSun/News/2005/02/17/933628-sun.html&linkid=1474&parent=news(headlines)&)

[FireEMTGuy]

Yep, My Chief passed around a fax fom Capital Health explaining their actions and reasoning. Being in an Integrated service we are confidant that capital health will leave us alone but at the moment anything is possible. Time will tell.

[five_alarm]

EDMONTON, AB - It won't be an emergency in many towns and cities if the province reneges on its promise to take over ambulance service in just over a month. But others are alarmed that the government might pull the plug on long-standing plans to fund ambulance service through regional health authorities.

"We're relying totally on the promise made by the government that, as of April 1, they would ensure that the health regions would take over the ambulance service in Alberta, 100%," said Grande Prairie Mayor Wayne Ayling.


Source: Edmonton Sun (http://www.firehall.com/refer.php?url=http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/EdmontonSun/News/2005/02/24/940775-sun.html&linkid=1503&parent=news(headlines)&)

[five_alarm]

EDMONTON, AB – The province will put off transferring ambulance services to regional health authorities for at least a year, because of the escalating price tag.

And the move – one month before the transfer was supposed to take place – is drawing fire from opposition parties and municipal leaders who anticipated getting the cost off their books.

"Disbelief, really, as one would feel when one was given a commitment and then, almost at the last moment, the commitment – with such wide-ranging impacts – is unilaterally withdrawn," Hinton Mayor Glen Taylor said. "We're not the ones with any money. We don't have a surplus.


Source: calgary.cbc.ca (http://www.firehall.com/refer.php?url=http://calgary.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=ca-ambulance-transfer20050302&linkid=1523&parent=news(headlines)&)

[DFCSmash]

Oh, that Ralph. Whatta kidder. Aren't you glad he's still in charge. It should make it easier for the next king of Alberta. Raphie boy is doing his best to make sure nobody misses him when he's gone.:rolleyes:

[LFD_FF17]

I will miss him. He made this Province the best province in Canada. Everyone screws up once in a while. And I still personally think that Ambulances should be part of the fire department. Not as an integrated service but along the same lines as New York. Ambulances and Fire trucks but Paramedics and Firefighters not paramedic-firefighters.

[five_alarm]

BOW VALLEY, AB - Municipal officials throughout the Bow Valley were reeling with "disappointment and frustration" yesterday after the Province announced the cancellation of an ambulance transfer project a year in the making.

The announcement, made by Alberta Health and Wellness Minister Iris Evans on Tuesday afternoon (March 1), sent finance officers scrambling to find dollars to fund eight months worth of ambulance funding previously unbudgeted for.

The figures are not insignificant. In Banff, officials are looking for more than $150,000. In the Improvement District 9 in Banff National Park, it's estimated to be about $250,000. In Canmore, it could be as high as $300,000 that has to be found.


Source: outlook-rockies.ca (http://www.outlook-rockies.ca/look/prd/article.tpl?IdLanguage=1&IdPublication=7&NrIssue=114&NrSection=1&NrArticle=3407)

[five_alarm]

EDMONTON, AB - The Alberta Urban Municipalities Association has pitched a proposal to Health Minister Iris Evans to revive a plan for the province to take over ambulance services. AUMA president Bob Hawkesworth, a Calgary alderman, said he met with Evans yesterday to make his case.

"Essentially, the proposal I made to the minister was that as of April 1 the province should still continue to assume funding of municipal ambulance services and that they should do so by reimbursing municipalities for the tax-supported portions of ground ambulance services for the coming year," Hawkesworth said yesterday.

Source: Edmonton Sun (http://www.firehall.com/refer.php?url=http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/EdmontonSun/News/2005/03/04/949830-sun.html&linkid=1538&parent=news(headlines)&)

[five_alarm]

FAIRVIEW, AB - Alberta Health and Wellness Minister Iris Evans announced that Peace Country Health (PCH) and the Palliser Health Region will move ahead and take over ambulance services on April 1 as pilot projects.

Ambulance services in the other health regions will not be transferred from municipal control in April as previously scheduled.

PCH chairman Marvin Moore said he was pleased that the region will be able to move forward as planned. PCH has been allocated $6.1 million to make the transfer a reality.

SOURCE: Fairview Post (http://www.fairviewpost.com/story.php?id=147652)

[five_alarm]

EDMONTON, AB - The province will dole out $55 million to municipalities after the government backed off a promise to take over ambulance service next month, says Alberta Health Minister Iris Evans. And while city officials say they're relieved yesterday's announcement addresses some municipalities' immediate budget shortfalls, they still want the province to plan for future ambulance funding.

"I think what we're looking for is a long-term solution," said Bob Hawkesworth, a Calgary alderman and president of the Alberta Urban Municipalities Association.

SOURCE: Edmonton Sun (http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/EdmontonSun/News/2005/03/09/954984-sun.html)

[five_alarm]

EDMONTON, AB - If success has many fathers and failure is an orphan, then the government's ambulance service fiasco is a bastard child.

Its parents are Alberta's politicians and bureaucrats who conceived the idea with faulty information and then left it to gestate during the "red zone" of the provincial election campaign. Instead of a $55-million love child we ended up with a $128-million mongrel not even a health minister could love.

It's certainly not an orphan even though it's a failure. This health-care Rosemary's baby has more parents than a PTA picnic. None are willing to sign the birth certificate, though. Everyone is blaming everyone else for the conception.

Source: Edmonton Journal (http://www.canada.com/edmonton/edmontonjournal/news/opinion/story.html?id=f5ca3fd1-fced-46fa-8574-312beb600ef1)

[five_alarm]

FAIRVIEW, AB - Peace Country Health (PCH) has been given the go-ahead to take over providing ambulance services on April 1.

The region is one of two test projects which will take place this year. Originally the provincial government planned to have all health regions in the province providing ambulance service in April but higher than anticipated costs forced the government to reconsider, Minister of Health and Wellness Iris Evans said. PCH has been allocated $6.1 million for the pilot project.

Source: fairviewpost.com (http://www.fairviewpost.com/story.php?id=150017)

[five_alarm]

DRAYTON VALLEY, AB - It was supposed to be the final meeting of the Pembina Valley Regional Ambulance Authority, but instead of the anticipated swan song, members were busy putting plans back in place after the provincial government officially cancelled its planned takeover of ambulance services.

“It was a surprise,” said Brazeau County representative Tim Mitchell. “We thought we would be disbanding then we realized we had to go and renew our contract with Associated Ambulance.”

The authority, which is made up of representatives from nine municipalities including Brazeau County, Drayton Valley and Breton had already proceeded to cancel their contract with Associated Ambulance after April of this year to allow the government to take over.

Source: draytonvalleywesternreview.com (http://www.draytonvalleywesternreview.com/story.php?id=149941)

[FireEMTGuy]

Associated does a good job. I have a feeling that in the end things will stay status quo with the only change being the funding will come from the health region instead of the municipality.

Just a guess.

[five_alarm]

AIRDRIE, AB - The city will be billing the province for $223,000 – the budget shortfall which Airdrie will incur in 2005 as a result of the province’s March 3 announcement that funding and governance of ground ambulance service will remain the realm of municipalities.

After unanimously passing the motion during Airdrie city council’s Monday night meeting, members expressed concern not only with how the province’s solution of spreading $55 million – the amount it originally allotted to health regions to begin paying for the service as of April 1 – to municipalities on a per capita basis is not enough for some communities, but how it seems to be too much for others.

Source: airdrieecho.com (http://www.airdrieecho.com/story.php?id=150480)

[FireEMTGuy]

Email I recieved:


Town, P.C.H deadlocked


by mark rieder
R-G Staff Writer
Tuesday March 29, 2005

Peace River Record Gazette - A March 22 meeting between Peace Country
health and the Town of Peace River ended in a stalemate on the future of
ambulance service.

In a strongly worded press release, the Town said they were "deeply
disappointed with the actions of Peace Country health", March 23.
In the press release, the Town stated they were under the impression the
meeting would be an open negotiation of ambulance delivery.

"Instead we received their two alternatives," Mayor Lorne Mann stated in
the release.

The Town was given the option of joining the pilot project and signing
over their assets or going it alone without financial assistance from
the province.

"Unfortunately, both scenarios negatively impact the residents of the
town," stated the release.

The Town's position is that losing their integrated fire and ambulance
service will "result in a reduced quality of service to town residents"
and "also cause a deterioration of service to the entire region".

Marvin Moore, Peace Country health board chair, disputed these claims at
a hastily called a press conference after the meeting.

"We think there's not a big issue there in concern to the response
time," he said.

Council will discuss the offer and make a final decision at the March 29
council meeting.

The Town has until April 1 to inform the health region if they will take
part in the pilot project.

"By April 1st somebody has to be responsible [for making a decision],"
said Moore.

The pilot project will be an on going initiative, beyond just one year
of operation.

"There's no turning back here. It's going to remain, in my view, for the
long-term." He said.

If the Town refuses the transfer, they will not receive any of the $55
million in funding the province has promised other municipalities as
compensation for dropping the province-wide ambulance transfer.
The province has promised a $16.00 per capita pay-out to the
municipalities. Peace Country health is getting $46.00 per capita for
their project. That includes Peace River's share, even if the town does
not take part.

"PCH will not even consider transferring the $16.00 per capita amount to
the town that every other municipality is receiving," says the press
release.

Another concern from the Town is compensation for the over $250,000.00
they have invested in the EMS equipment that would be taken over by the
health region.

The communities that make up Peace Regional Emergency Medical Services
(PREMS) agreed to sign over their assets, well in excess of the amount
the Town of Peace River has invested.

Joyce Sydnes, CAO for the MD of Peace #135, said they had no qualms
about the decision.

"We feel that's the right thing to do," she said, adding the taxpayers
paid for the assets and they are still being used for the taxpayers'
benefit.

Paul Ramer, PREMS manager, said he had heard no concerns over
compensation from any of the communities that comprise the service.

[five_alarm]

PEACE RIVER, AB - While both Peace Country Health and Peace River seem to have found a common ground as to how a provincial ambulance service will be delivered in town, an agreement may yet be far off as too many questions remain unanswered. Peace River opted to not join Peace Country Health when it took over ambulances services last spring as one of only two health authorities in Alberta to do so as pilot study. The town had recently invested in new equipment and training to develop an integrated fire/ambulance service.

In letters back and forth over the past two months, the two sides identified that a Peace River service would see advanced life support paramedics stationed at the Peace River Community Health Centre 24 hours a day, seven days a week along with the same being provided from the Peace River Airport. PCH said it would also offer employment opportunities to all existing Peace River ambulance personnel.

But...

Source: prrecordgazette.com (http://www.prrecordgazette.com/story.php?id=212159)

[FireChiefGuy]

It is important that every member of Integrated Fire and EMS in the Province of Alberta be aware of what has/is happening with the Peace River Fire Department/Town of Peace River/Peace Country Health with relation to EMS Governance. The pilot project has sought to disband the integrated service from day one, however the Town of Peace River has been dilligent in wanting to get the answers to questions that may never be answered. I will keep you posted. Keep up the good work with the website.

[five_alarm]

PEACE RIVER, AB - The chairman of the Peace Country Health board says negotiations with the town of Peace River over ambulance service are finished.

Marvin Moore officially put an end to discussions with the town council over how a provincial ambulance service would be delivered. “We’ve been negotiating with them for over a year,” Moore said at Tuesday’s regular board meeting. “There is no end to this. We’ve already extended ourselves past what we should. Negotiations aren’t going anywhere and we have to get on with providing all of our services to everyone else up there.”

Last spring, Peace River opted to not join Peace Country Health when it took over ambulance services, one of only two health authorities in Alberta to do so as a pilot study.

Source: prrecordgazette.com (http://www.prrecordgazette.com/story.php?id=213364)

[five_alarm]

PEACE RIVER, AB - Despite Peace Country Health decisions to cut off talks with Peace River over the delivery of ambulance service, the town will remain open to discussions. At it meeting Feb. 13 town council decided to keep pushing for negotiations on the matter and they will also forward their report made to the Ambulance Advisory Committee to each of the PCH board members.

“I don’t think the board is getting the information, they’re being led and misled,” said Mayor Lorne Mann. “We should remind them we are the only place in Alberta not receiving money for ambulance, it’s outrageous.” The two have been in ongoing negotiations after the town failed to hand over its integrated ambulance service last spring when PCH took over delivery of the service as one of two pilot projects.

Source: prrecordgazette.com (http://www.prrecordgazette.com/story.php?id=214934)

[five_alarm]

PEACE RIVER, AB - April 1 marked the one-year anniversary of the province’s pilot project which saw Peace Country Health (PCH) take over Fairview and area’s ambulance service. The transition, in which 13 stations amalgamated, has been deemed a success and Bryan Nilsson, PCH coordinator for Zone 1 and Fairview town councillor, says the switch has been very positive.

“One of the biggest successes throughout all of this has been with the staff,” Nilsson explains. “Staff morale has increased. People feel like they have a career now and not just a job.” Nilsson goes on to say that ambulance services previously struggled with knowing where they fit in and under what organization their operation fell.

Source: fairviewpost.com (http://www.fairviewpost.com/story.php?id=223128)

[five_alarm]

CAMROSE, AB - The Camrose EMS is a model for the province when it comes to the operation and governance of ambulance service but even they cannot function as efficiently and effectively as they should with a lack of provincial government funding. Gerry Galenza chairman of the Camrose EMS board is troubled by a provincial announcement that indicates the Ralph Klein government will not increase funding for ambulance services for the April 1, 2006 to March 31, 2007 period.Source: camrosecanadian.com (http://www.camrosecanadian.com/story.php?id=234449)

[Josh00]

...aaannndd we still have it!!!!!!!!! And it's workin Freaking awesome!

[Inspir]

I heard a rumor that this might be undertaken again, can anyone confirm this?

[1450]

I hope that someone in Edmonton is paying attention to the fiasco in the north as orchestrated by PCH. A complete lack of communication is eroding the EMS service levels we once enjoyed. Things are not well in Hooville.

[FireChiefGuy]

I heard the same rumor that they are talking again. Apparently the new Fire Chief is having difficulty getting Paramedics to work for the department, which is affecting the level of care. Just a rumor.

[paradrol]

Can anyone provide any information on how Regionilazation is doing in PCH. In Palliser it is a disaster our turn over rate is unbelievable with many people leaving to go to greener pastures. While we hear all the time in the press how well things are it could not be further from the truth. There are many disadvantages to regionalization that management has not disclosed in the media. It is truly frustrating to see the degregation occuring here but their insistence that all is well. If there are any rumors about the future of this I would like to hear them and others experiences with regionalization.

[Inspir]

A little something I found in the Calgary Herald a couple of days ago.



Cities want action on EMS
Transfer of ambulance services in limbo Three years after Alberta retreated from a plan to transfer ambulance services to health authorities -- and left the future of the emergency medical services in limbo -- several cities are calling on government to make a decision on the file.

With the recent appointment of a new provincial health minister, groups like the Alberta Urban Municipalities Association say Alberta Health should determine whether communities will continue to fund and run ambulances or if health regions should take over the service.

"One way or another, we'd like to put the issue to rest," said Lloyd Bertschi, president of the municipalities association, who is also the mayor of Morinville.

"It's been three years." Several organizations also said indecision on the issue has created uncertainty and made it difficult to decide whether to buy new ambulances and equipment since it's unclear who will hold the assets in the future.

"The longer there are unknowns attached to this, the more those unknowns could affect capital funding," said Darrell Reid, acting fire chief of Strathcona County Emergency Services.

Alberta Health officials say they have no timeline for when a decision might be made on ambulance funding and governance, noting Health Minister Ron Liepert was appointed little over a week ago.

"We have a new minister now. He'll want to get up to speed and make decisions," said Shannon Haggerty, a spokesperson with the department.

The debate follows Alberta's decision in the spring of 2005 to quash a planned transfer of ambulance services from municipalities to health regions. The transition was intended to relieve financial pressure on cash-strapped cities.

But the province changed its mind just weeks before the transfer was to take place, scrapping the proposal after cost estimates nearly tripled from the original $55 million.

The decision outraged dozens of communities that had eliminated the cost of their ambulance service from their budget and were left with an unexpected bill. Iris Evans, who was then health minister, later provided funding to help communities with the tab.

She also announced that the transfer would proceed in two health regions -- Palliser and Peace Country -- as a pilot project. A committee, charged with examining the issue, filed its recommendations with Alberta Health some time ago and was told late last year it had been officially disbanded.

The committee's report has never been released.

Alberta Health acknowledges that in the three years since the transfer was scrapped, little has changed.

Most municipalities are still running the ambulance programs, although they are receiving financial assistance from the province that wasn't available before the 2005 transfer gaffe.

"For now, it's status quo," Haggerty said.

Meanwhile, opinions vary widely on whether the government should proceed with the transfer.

Cities and health regions around the province note that ambulance services operate on different models, making it difficult to find a solution that will work for everyone.

In centres like Calgary, for example, the ambulance service is integrated with other city emergency services like police and fire at the same locations.

"Calgary EMS is very embedded into the city," said Tom Sampson, chief of EMS, who sat on the advisory committee that examined ambulance services. "How do you extract (EMS)?" Sampson said he hopes the province will provide more funding, but leave ambulance operations with the city.

Some smaller communities, however, support transferring ambulance service to the health regions.

Didsbury Mayor Brian Wittal said ambulances are essentially a medical service and he believes health regions may be able to better integrate services if they were transferred.

In Palliser Health Region, where the transfer has gone ahead as part of the pilot project, officials say the new system is working well.

Officials say staff members are now Palliser employees, allowing the health region to make better use of paramedics by having them run flu clinics and education programs.

A decision is needed, said Calgary Mayor Dave Bronconnier. We "need to know the province's view on the long-term future of EMS."

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=b6135fe9-fcc7-4768-bb7a-90fb68e6116c&p=1



Looks like everything is working well in Palliser eh paradrol! ;)

[dirkjaniak]

She also announced that the transfer would proceed in two health regions -- Palliser and Peace Country -- as a pilot project. A committee, charged with examining the issue, filed its recommendations with Alberta Health some time ago and was told late last year it had been officially disbanded. It seems like the committee came up with something THEY didn't like

The committee's report has never been released.
Big supprise there :-0

In Palliser Health Region, where the transfer has gone ahead as part of the pilot project, officials say the new system is working well.
O.K ?!

[CanuckEMT]

If things are going so well in palliser health region then why are there so many guys getting out of there and going to other services like Lethbridge and Calgary?

[LFD_FF17]

I heard a rumour last week that there was a meeting in Nisku and expect in the next week or so an annoucement that the take over will be going ahead

[paradrol]

That is exactly what I am saying the place is falling apart but apparently all is well. If anyone is interested we are always hiring, The local parmedic college has a 100% placement rate cuz we hire em all to replace all the ones that leave. I cant tell you how many we loose as I have lost track, I seriously dont know everyones names cuz they go through here so fast, Right now 2 are going to Texas to take the fire course to work at MHFD 3 are in the Lethbridge Fire recruitment process. Another will be going to Red Deer soon another decided to go into nursing instead and is enrolled in the program. but hey what do I know I just work here. I guess I should read the news cuz things are just swell here. I really dont know how they get away with it. Good luck all pray that this does not come to your town.

[CanuckEMT]

I heard a rumor last week that there was a meeting in Nisku and expect in the next week or so an announcement that the take over will be going ahead

This is very interesting. I had not heard anything of this yet. Hopefully if it does go ahead, all the integrated services end up in the same position as Peace River FD and run autonomously in the regions they serve.

And to paradrol, I am currently going through the process in Lethbridge with the 3 you mention.

[paradrol]

Hope it goes welll for you. I am stuck here unfortunatly. The guys going through Lethbridge right now are great guys Lethbridge will be lucky to get them Like all the others that have left here for there recently. I believe integrated services will do well even with regionaliztion as you could never dismantle one of those services without incurring large degradation and increased cost. They will benefit from the ties of the municipality and infrastructure, Where as Palliser will continue to bleed because money will only come from Alberta Health, The city has washed their hands with us. Anyone who follows the health care funding issues will know that they are having a difficult time looking after the hospitals so I have no idea where the money will come from to look after EMS without serious degragation. Good luck to all. Integrated Fire/EMS IS THE ONLY SAFE PLACE TO BE IF THIS GOES THROUGH AND I AM HEARING IT WILL.

[CanuckEMT]

Hope it goes welll for you. I am stuck here unfortunatly. The guys going through Lethbridge right now are great guys Lethbridge will be lucky to get them Like all the others that have left here for there recently. I believe integrated services will do well even with regionaliztion as you could never dismantle one of those services without incurring large degradation and increased cost. They will benefit from the ties of the municipality and infrastructure, Where as Palliser will continue to bleed because money will only come from Alberta Health, The city has washed their hands with us. Anyone who follows the health care funding issues will know that they are having a difficult time looking after the hospitals so I have no idea where the money will come from to look after EMS without serious degragation. Good luck to all. Integrated Fire/EMS IS THE ONLY SAFE PLACE TO BE IF THIS GOES THROUGH AND I AM HEARING IT WILL.

Thanx man I got my fingers crossed.

[jeffreyclark]

Its a done deal, as of today!



http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Alberta/2008/05/29/5706846.html

[pitottube]

Thanx man I got my fingers crossed.

Just a bit of an update, through the grapevine it appears even integrated services may disappear in 3 years the way the province wants things run. Most services will accept contracts for 2-3 years but after that there is to many things going against any city wanting to keep their integrated service. It would seem that the province is going after hospital based EMS with emt/paramedics doing alot of their skills in the hospitals, then responding to calls when required.

[dirkjaniak]

It would seem that the province is going after hospital based EMS with emt/paramedics doing alot of their skills in the hospitals, then responding to calls when required.

... they're going to like that, eh?!

[WillyWildland]

... they're going to like that, eh?!

I think if I were a medic I would be leaving the province. Too many uncertainties and anything we have heard doesn't play out well for them. One rumor I have heard is the hospitals (province) are looking forward to changing medic and EMT attitudes towards the hospitals and the waits they have to deal with. Don't blame them for being pissed waiting at hospital. If I had to wait there half my shift and all I wanted to do was the job I was trained for it would tire on me a bit too.

I also know guys on integrated services like Strath and St. Alb. and some of them are just hoping integration gets turfed.

I always knew EMS was just a stepping stone to becoming a firefighter right.....

[dentedhead]

It would seem that the province is going after hospital based EMS with emt/paramedics doing alot of their skills in the hospitals, then responding to calls when required.


Have they even researched that?Whats the nurses union have to say about it.Who will be responsible if something goes wrong?Province or hospital?

Ontario was like that in the dark ages,guys who worked for hospital based services had to do prep shaves,catheters assist with autopsies and various other unpleasant tasks.Whatever will they come up with next funeral home based services.We had lots of those too.

By dark ages I mean less than 20 years ago.

Dentedhead

[dentedhead]

I think if I were a medic I would be leaving the province. Too many uncertainties and anything we have heard doesn't play out well for them. One rumor I have heard is the hospitals (province) are looking forward to changing medic and EMT attitudes towards the hospitals and the waits they have to deal with. Don't blame them for being pissed waiting at hospital. If I had to wait there half my shift and all I wanted to do was the job I was trained for it would tire on me a bit too.

I also know guys on integrated services like Strath and St. Alb. and some of them are just hoping integration gets turfed.

I always knew EMS was just a stepping stone to becoming a firefighter right.....

For a lot of folks it is.

Ontario is now starting to make noise about trying to iuntegrate fire/ems....please for the love of god no!!

Dentedhead

[CanuckEMT]

Just a bit of an update, through the grapevine it appears even integrated services may disappear in 3 years the way the province wants things run. Most services will accept contracts for 2-3 years but after that there is to many things going against any city wanting to keep their integrated service. It would seem that the province is going after hospital based EMS with emt/paramedics doing alot of their skills in the hospitals, then responding to calls when required.

Well, the one thing I can't understand, even with integrated services aside, is how someone can sign the contract they are offering with the 180 day opt out clause that protects Alberta Health. So the given service may sign a 2 yr contract but at anytime the Government can cancel it with 180 days notice. How can any service do their capital budget with a clause like that?

With the hospital based EMS aspect, I don't think the powers that be have contemplated the fact that RN's don't want Paramedics(ACP/EMTP) working in the hospital. I have the feeling that there will be quite the uproar from the UNA if that is the direction they want to partake in. IMHO I think we will be doing more catheter changes in the assisted living facilities and assisting with flu shots before we are working in the ER. Not to mention that there are also RT's that would not like us treading in their ABG and intubation areas.

I am just thankful that my position with the Fire Dept will still be there whether we have an ambulance in the station or not.

[NWOPCP]

Well, the one thing I can't understand, even with integrated services aside, is how someone can sign the contract they are offering with the 180 day opt out clause that protects Alberta Health. So the given service may sign a 2 yr contract but at anytime the Government can cancel it with 180 days notice. How can any service do their capital budget with a clause like that?


That is standard everywhere, and serves to protect the public. It allows them to remove bad operators. Even in rare cases where the clause has to be used, it only removes the service operators licence. The service and paramedics stay, but become directly operated or given to a new operator.

I don't see any budget issues coming into it.