5 year and 9 year restricted contracts

[flanker]

Thoughts on the military forcing firefighters to sign 5 year restricted to go on your 5s and 9 year for those entering the trade...
No releasing, no changing trades (ie SARTECH)

[ndvfd_ff33]

Thoughts on the military forcing firefighters to sign 5 year restricted to go on your 5s and 9 year for those entering the trade...
No releasing, no changing trades (ie SARTECH)

They talking about this or is this something you thought up? Hell I'd sign a 20 year restricted if I meant I get in the trade. :eek:

[fire149]

That is the new rules. First IE is 9 yrs. To go on your 5's you must sign a Statement of Understanding whick means no release or OT for 5 yrs upon completion of your 5's course.

[fire149]

Oh and to aswer the original question, it is not going over very well at our Hall. It looks like we are going to lose alot of guys.

[hmckay91]

It is simply a retention scheme, DND is looking for a return on their investment.

You potentialy only lose those members looking at the DND fire service as a means to an end and not a career. Under the current scheme, DND would be losing "those guys" to the municipal/industrial side after their 5's anyway with little or no return.

[BTDT]

Jesus. What idiot thought this one up? And what is the recourse for releasing? I can see the move towards banning OTs but I don't believe it'll last long...could it because of the closed sign pretty much hung up on RCs?

I'll state now that I am not a 651, just a former Mo that still keeps his eye on CF matters.

I'd also suggest talking about it at army.ca likely loads of people to discuss with over there.

[cf651fire]

They talking about this or is this something you thought up? Hell I'd sign a 20 year restricted if I meant I get in the trade. :eek:


You really should talk to others in the trade before you want 20 years in. At this point alot of us can't see the CF fire services surviving under this new contract. I did my 5 years and looking to get out. I like the trade and the guys but someone in the CFFM office needs to give their head a shake. Word around the stations is that the guys that aren't resigning are being treated like sh!t. Few guys are are actually being booted out of the halls and assigned to special projects around the base. The CF are the ones to blame for this contract. Before thay said 4 years but would still let people get out i've heard as early as 3 months. So after shooting themselves in the foot they are trying to correct the problem but only making things worse.
Some of us think they should go all civie as the military doesn't seem to know how to run their fire service.
We losing some good leaders with the new " you have to speak french to become a CWO " rule.
I dunno.........its to bad really as alot of good guys in the trade.

[ndvfd_ff33]

You really should talk to others in the trade before you want 20 years in. At this point alot of us can't see the CF fire services surviving under this new contract. I did my 5 years and looking to get out. I like the trade and the guys but someone in the CFFM office needs to give their head a shake. Word around the stations is that the guys that aren't resigning are being treated like sh!t. Few guys are are actually being booted out of the halls and assigned to special projects around the base. The CF are the ones to blame for this contract. Before thay said 4 years but would still let people get out i've heard as early as 3 months. So after shooting themselves in the foot they are trying to correct the problem but only making things worse.
Some of us think they should go all civie as the military doesn't seem to know how to run their fire service.
We losing some good leaders with the new " you have to speak french to become a CWO " rule.
I dunno.........its to bad really as alot of good guys in the trade.


I sent you a PM.

[flanker]

hey dude, 20years would be a very long time. The old rules used to be sign 20 or I think 25 (latest) year contract before going onto your 5s, but you could change trades or release. You'd sacrifice severance pay and your final move home. Those who signed the old contract must still sign the new one, regardless.

There is definitely talk of people getting out, refusing to sign themselves up for a 5 year, no options plan. Regarding the firefighters being tasked out around the base in non-fire positions, we can't do that at my hall. There just isn't enough people for crews, taskings, leave, etc.

I am curious tho, we had the career managers brief, and the CWO said someone got promoted to CWO without being bilingual...question is, are they uni-lingual in french or english. My guess is you don't have to be bilingual, you just need to speak french.

[ndvfd_ff33]

hey dude, 20years would be a very long time.

Sorry, that was supposed to be a bit of a joke. I sure as shit wouldn't sign a 20 year restricted contract. I think I could deal with five though.

[fire149]

For the military firefighters here, what is the genaral word in your halls? Where I am at it is not going over good and alot of guys will not sign it. So they will not be going on a 5's course.

[BTDT]

And what's going to be the knock on effect of that?

[cf651fire]

And what's going to be the knock on effect of that?

The knock off will be less experienced ff's later on in life. Talking like 10 years from now. Less promotions cause there will be no one to promote. Probably have to open up to direct entries,crews go down to minimum manning, our budget goes for a big sh!t cause NDHQ will see how f'd up we are.

[CombatChallenger]

Pretty sure they can't do that. I would go and talk to your bpso and inquire about this. From my understanding only officers have a restricted contract such as the one purposed. i.e doctors, dentists, and if the CF paid for your university. That seems very unrealistic to try and impose such restrictions.

[flanker]

It's not going over well at my firehall, that's for certain. I know of at least 5 guys who are now just going to finish their contract and not re-sign or are just releasing.
Not only are they making people sign, they are reneging on those who signed the 20yr contract to go onto their 5s, (awaiting course) those guys are being forced to sign the new restricted 5yr.
It's a retention plan...but what the military fails to see, getting hired civy side isn't just seals (any kid can get 10 seals) but its experience that counts. People will leave regardless.

[BTDT]

Agree with Combat Challenger, BPSO all the way. Tell them your feelings were hurt in the process and you're golden.

[ff87]

There are alot of guys at our hall who say they will not sign it. Some have even already turned down the 5s course in feb and refused a new TOS. They are just going to finish out their contracts as QL4 qualified guys. No talk of going anywhere as the hall is already short man power. I truely feel sorry for the boys who signed TOS in the fall and now have to deal with this BS. Its a damn shame.

I agree with flanker. People are going to get out regardless. Now they just have more of a reason to do so. This is the wrong way of going about retaining guys. Anyone who is on the fence about staying in has now made up their mind. And Ill tell you they arent going to sign a 5 year restriced release. The trade is just killing itself. I cant wait to see how many of the approx 75 trained QL4s waiting for a 5s cousre will actually sign a restricted release or just laugh and say NO F***ING WAY

Maybe if there was some real incentive to stay in people would. I laugh at the list of incentives the trade advisor and career manager came up with as reasons to stay in. Civy depts have pensions and health care plans too. They also offer things like overtime pay and dont post you anywhere in the country every few years, and dont make you come in on your days off with no compensation to do stupid shit like a parade, or go to the range, or being CEs little bitch or to sign something at the orderly room that clearly couldve waited til you were on duty again. As it stands now the pros simply do not out weigh the cons and the civy side of firefighting is 1000times more appealing. Some of the old guys like to say "if you dont like it get out" well guess what.....thats excatly whats happening.

You want to keep guys in. Heres what needs to happen. The higher ups need to REALLY START LISTENING to the reasons why all the young guys are getting out and make changes to keep them in. Its not 1980 anymore. Shake the cobwebs out of your head and LISTEN. Maybe just maybe some guys would stay in.

Sorry about the little rant its just so frustrating dealing with some of the decisions made in this trade. Its sad cause there is so much potential for this be be an outstanding trade but there are too many retards in ottawa who havent worked in a firehall in years making decisions on how to run firehalls

[CombatChallenger]

There are alot of guys at our hall who say they will not sign it. Some have even already turned down the 5s course in feb and refused a new TOS. They are just going to finish out their contracts as QL4 qualified guys. No talk of going anywhere as the hall is already short man power. I truely feel sorry for the boys who signed TOS in the fall and now have to deal with this BS. Its a damn shame.

I agree with flanker. People are going to get out regardless. Now they just have more of a reason to do so. This is the wrong way of going about retaining guys. Anyone who is on the fence about staying in has now made up their mind. And Ill tell you they arent going to sign a 5 year restriced release. The trade is just killing itself. I cant wait to see how many of the approx 75 trained QL4s waiting for a 5s cousre will actually sign a restricted release or just laugh and say NO F***ING WAY

Maybe if there was some real incentive to stay in people would. I laugh at the list of incentives the trade advisor and career manager came up with as reasons to stay in. Civy depts have pensions and health care plans too. They also offer things like overtime pay and dont post you anywhere in the country every few years, and dont make you come in on your days off with no compensation to do stupid shit like a parade, or go to the range, or being CEs little bitch or to sign something at the orderly room that clearly couldve waited til you were on duty again. As it stands now the pros simply do not out weigh the cons and the civy side of firefighting is 1000times more appealing. Some of the old guys like to say "if you dont like it get out" well guess what.....thats excatly whats happening.

You want to keep guys in. Heres what needs to happen. The higher ups need to REALLY START LISTENING to the reasons why all the young guys are getting out and make changes to keep them in. Its not 1980 anymore. Shake the cobwebs out of your head and LISTEN. Maybe just maybe some guys would stay in.

Sorry about the little rant its just so frustrating dealing with some of the decisions made in this trade. Its sad cause there is so much potential for this be be an outstanding trade but there are too many retards in ottawa who havent worked in a firehall in years making decisions on how to run firehalls

Well put, I got out later year and I'm working in a civy hall. 100% better. Grass is much greener on the civy side.

[Belmont43]

There are alot of guys at our hall who say they will not sign it. Some have even already turned down the 5s course in feb and refused a new TOS. They are just going to finish out their contracts as QL4 qualified guys. No talk of going anywhere as the hall is already short man power. I truely feel sorry for the boys who signed TOS in the fall and now have to deal with this BS. Its a damn shame.

I agree with flanker. People are going to get out regardless. Now they just have more of a reason to do so. This is the wrong way of going about retaining guys. Anyone who is on the fence about staying in has now made up their mind. And Ill tell you they arent going to sign a 5 year restriced release. The trade is just killing itself. I cant wait to see how many of the approx 75 trained QL4s waiting for a 5s cousre will actually sign a restricted release or just laugh and say NO F***ING WAY

Maybe if there was some real incentive to stay in people would. I laugh at the list of incentives the trade advisor and career manager came up with as reasons to stay in. Civy depts have pensions and health care plans too. They also offer things like overtime pay and dont post you anywhere in the country every few years, and dont make you come in on your days off with no compensation to do stupid shit like a parade, or go to the range, or being CEs little bitch or to sign something at the orderly room that clearly couldve waited til you were on duty again. As it stands now the pros simply do not out weigh the cons and the civy side of firefighting is 1000times more appealing. Some of the old guys like to say "if you dont like it get out" well guess what.....thats excatly whats happening.

You want to keep guys in. Heres what needs to happen. The higher ups need to REALLY START LISTENING to the reasons why all the young guys are getting out and make changes to keep them in. Its not 1980 anymore. Shake the cobwebs out of your head and LISTEN. Maybe just maybe some guys would stay in.

Sorry about the little rant its just so frustrating dealing with some of the decisions made in this trade. Its sad cause there is so much potential for this be be an outstanding trade but there are too many retards in ottawa who havent worked in a firehall in years making decisions on how to run firehalls

Agreed!!! I too got out, bc of those very reasons then a year later just like CombatChallenger....hired with a civi dept. Good luck to all those guys that are getting out and to those in the trade, keep the head up...its good training and experience! I hope the it all works out in the end!

[Goose651]

Trade's healthy and the numbers are good. LMFAO!!!!