Many applicants, few jobs

[tazz]

It seems like all over the country that there are many applicants( qualified) but few jobs.Some do get hired, but there are many people who have been trying for many departments for a few years to no avail. Are the colleges just pumping out too many students? People are spending time, money and effort to become a firefighter and still don't have a job. Maybe the schools should only put out a few more graduates each year than jobs that open up for the region, instead of having a set number of graduates each year. I don't know what the figures are, but would I be wrong in saying that maybe half that go to school actually get a job? I just think that it would easier on people if they knew that there was more of a garantee of job when done school. But I guess in life there are no garantees.

[TalonJK]

Last year at our school, they did not have enrollment for full or part time preservice program. The college was surprised at the number of applicants over the past few years for this program.

I know that with our part time class, we started with 50 and we are at about 20 or so now. I am not sure about the full time group and how many they pump out at time of graduation. The one problem that the college faces is that if they only allow say 25 in instead of 50 and people drop out, they may not have enough students to run the program. I have been told that in order to have a class you need at least 12. So the students enrolled wouldn't be able to complete their studies.

I think your right though, there seems to be an abundance of applicants and too few positions. Maybe the schools should only accept new applicants every 2 years, but then again they wouldn't make any money would they!

[smoke286]

Apparently the statistics vary widely in different parts of the country. In this area the percentage is fairly high

[dentedhead]

Im not sure when it became the crazy race it has.The first time I applied to my hometown dept there was about 200 applicants,I heard the last recruitment they ran garnered almost 7000 applicants.I cant even think of how many T.O would get....lottery you say.

The college program initially was not to blame for inflating the numbers there was one or two offering prefire now I think every community college in Ont offers it.

I saw a similar trend develop when I worked EMS.The program at my college took in no more than 50 we finished with 37.There were only 2 schools in S/W ont offering the course.As other colleges got the program class sizes doubled and in all honesty the quality of grad dropped considerably.The market became saturated and we saw lots who never ended up working in EMS.I can see a like trend occuring with preservice.....Show me the money and your in!

FF now has become such a popular and romanticized profesion that everyone wants to be one now. Hence the huge application pools.I talked to a family friend who is a DC in a large dept he said for every 100 apps they get about 20 end up binned right away without even going to test phase because they are incomplete,dont meet bare min standards or they simply make no sense or are unreadable.

Thats my take on it.

Dentedhead

[TalonJK]

So what can be done about it? We hear rumors that some departments require that applicants need to have completed a preservice program or have previous experience. Should the colleges be accredited and only those qualified remain. Cuts out the inferior schools? Or have all applicants write a provincal exams, set by the fire marshalls before applying anywhere ? I am only familiar with Ontario departments, but it seems like BC and Alberta may have something with accepting applications year round and only calling those that they want to interview, test... when the need arises. Any thoughts guys and gals?

[DFCSmash]

dh "Im not sure when it became the crazy race it has"

9/11/01

Romanticized career expectations, talk of "heroes", perception of job security and stability in uncertain times, These are teh reasons I see as the main ones for the huge increase in awareness of and interest in the Fire/Emergency Services.

I in no way imply any disrespect for the fallen members of FDNY. They lost their lives in a valiant effort to save others. They deserve the mantle of "hero".

Others however were quick to try to assume that same glory by osmosis, rather than by action. These are the people I have no tolerance for.

[hom4er]

I have something good to say about the way things are done in Alberta and BC beacause they are a bit different. There ongoing process deals with candidates they deem to be qualified and fit for the position. This idea of a recruitment just opening up out of the blue is a tough one to follow. There is a lot of people just sitting down to write apptitudes to see where it will go. Hamilton for example had four sessions with about 600 or so in each. WOW! I think the initial screening that takes place out West is a very smart thing. They get to see in a way who was made a committment to this profession provided that there documents are valid. I am in waiting on CFD at this time and it seems they are running a good operation.

Homer

[TalonJK]

I wrote for Hamilton and it just seems like we were be herded in like cattle.

Best of luck Homer with CFD

[dentedhead]

dh "Im not sure when it became the crazy race it has"

9/11/01

Romanticized career expectations, talk of "heroes", perception of job security and stability in uncertain times, These are teh reasons I see as the main ones for the huge increase in awareness of and interest in the Fire/Emergency Services.

I in no way imply any disrespect for the fallen members of FDNY. They lost their lives in a valiant effort to save others. They deserve the mantle of "hero".

Others however were quick to try to assume that same glory by osmosis, rather than by action. These are the people I have no tolerance for.

I agree with your sentiments.I have seen a steady increase in applicants over the last 10 years or so.911 just tipped it over the edge,military enlistments also shot up post 911.I wonder how many that enlisted woke up one AM with sgt leather lungs banging a garbage can and blowing a whistle and wished there was a cooling off periodLOL.

Where will it end ?Nobody knows

Dentedhead

[dentedhead]

So what can be done about it? We hear rumors that some departments require that applicants need to have completed a preservice program or have previous experience. Should the colleges be accredited and only those qualified remain. Cuts out the inferior schools? Or have all applicants write a provincal exams, set by the fire marshalls before applying anywhere ? I am only familiar with Ontario departments, but it seems like BC and Alberta may have something with accepting applications year round and only calling those that they want to interview, test... when the need arises. Any thoughts guys and gals?

You stand just as much a chance getting on without preservice as a grad.It is not mandatory in Ontario,despite what the colleges are wooing ppl with.Will it ever be?Who knows!

As far as a provincially certified FF the OFC has/is trying that with the "curriculum" it is a bone of contention with many.The only way to get it is to be either FT or POC.

Whats the difference? Year round apps or a window when they are hiring for sure.They will all be scruitinized the same.No pile,maybe pile and invitation to testing pile.

Tis a long and frustrating road but absolutley worth every minute in the end.

Dentedhead

[tazz]

I think that there is no real answer to this. It is just something people have to be aware of before they invest into going to school. You have to be honest with yourself and know that you can do this job well and also love the profession. I think there are people going to school who may have 1 of these two things and think "I'm going to be a firefighter". Human resoures will see right through you and you will not get a job.
I agree with dentedhead, it is truly worth it in the end.

[tr23]

It is comforting to hear that those of us without pre-service still have a chance. From many people I've talked to lately they all indicated Pre-Service was the be all and end all in recruitments. However most of these people were in some way affiliated or had taken the program. :) I've been looking at part time Pre-Service for awhile now, but I can't afford it at the moment.
TR23

[scoop422]

"From many people I've talked to lately they all indicated Pre-Service was the be all and end all in recruitments. However most of these people were in some way affiliated or had taken the program."

BINGO!

[BCFFFV]

I have found that many people going to fire schools are sort of in denial about their chances of getting hired. It may be their dream to become a Firefighter but yet they won't do the research on what it really takes. I mean honestly, I had people in my academy class who had no clue that they also needed 1 year of post secondary education or a trade to apply at most all dept's in our province. It's not just about taking your NFPA 1001 Level 1 and 2. That is nothing more than one of the MINIMUM requirements. People just don't seem to get that you need MUCH MORE than the same certificate that all 600+ other applicants have. You will be going up against guys with trade certificates and competitive sports experience and a wide variety of tangible skills. Some people just think that going to fire academy will get them the job and they are finding out at their first application just how tough it really is.....Be honest about your skills before spending $10,000+ on a course. It's no different than people who can't pass the physical tests.....You should know these things before spending $10,000+ if you can pass the combat challenge or whatever test they have. Just my thoughts.....And yes in my opinion the academies are pumping out more and more students all the time. And most really don't care if you are suited for the job. They need your money and will gladly take it.

[popstar]

I completely agree that fire colleges are for the most part business and will gladly accept your money, getting your firetraining is an essential first step (not the last), I say first step because I feel that after this alot of applicants feel they are greatly employable (I felt the same way).. IN reality most aren't, after this stage is what sets you apart, IN MY OPPINION here are some things which will help joining toastmasters to become a confident public speaker, volunteering at the less glamorous jobs e.g. hospital(scrubbing nuts and wiping butts, teach english, help the disabled),taking the cooking course offered at your local community college, travelling to other countries and learn secondary languages, Doing manual labor related to f.d. work a variety of jobs which in some small way relate to f.d's, understand building construction learn a trade, These are just examples, for the most part the career is to be had but only the most driven and determined shall be rewarded, So if you have your training congrats!!! now its time to get serious and set yourself apart. I feel the most important thing is to be dedicated to being a life long learner,

GOOD LUCK OR GOOD RODDANCE

[FLASHOVER05]

It is comforting to hear that those of us without pre-service still have a chance. From many people I've talked to lately they all indicated Pre-Service was the be all and end all in recruitments. However most of these people were in some way affiliated or had taken the program. :) I've been looking at part time Pre-Service for awhile now, but I can't afford it at the moment.
TR23

Hey TR23... The part time Pre-service program is still the Pre Service program regardless. That's how I do it considering that I also can't afford the costs... How anyone does it is beyond me! if you figure in costs over a 9 month period... 11,000 dollars for program, uniform, books ETC... That prolly doesn't even include the cost of parking as my school you must pay per day... ( four dollars)... Loss of pay (Not sure anyone can work full time while at school)... Cost of food... this can easily total up well over 15,000 dollars, that doesn't even include cost of gas for a vehicle aswell as insurance... Needless to say find it hard to just put away 15 dollars let alone 15,000...

TR23... I feel your pain!

[FFWannabe]

Hey TR23... The part time Pre-service program is still the Pre Service program regardless. That's how I do it considering that I also can't afford the costs... How anyone does it is beyond me! if you figure in costs over a 9 month period... 11,000 dollars for program, uniform, books ETC... That prolly doesn't even include the cost of parking as my school you must pay per day... ( four dollars)... Loss of pay (Not sure anyone can work full time while at school)... Cost of food... this can easily total up well over 15,000 dollars, that doesn't even include cost of gas for a vehicle aswell as insurance... Needless to say find it hard to just put away 15 dollars let alone 15,000...

TR23... I feel your pain!


Oh gawd... I had a brief fleeting thought that I might want to get to school full time and work out some way of surviving while I did it... of course now you put it in perspective for me, and with loss of wages, it would cost me over $50 000 for one year... oh man!!!!

Sue :eek:

[tr23]

Sue, If you we're gonna go back to school, I'de say go for it....but set out a very careful budget, and then add at least 50% to it. My program is almost done now, and it was one year long. I had employment that allowed me a great deal of flexibility, but I still had to lose the bulk of my income for the year. I thought I had everything accounted for....but things come up.....plus I hadn't researched the cost of supplies for my course thoroughly enough......
But....going back to school has been the greatest thing for me....made me realize that I can do new things, learn new things, and its opened up all kinds of ideas, including seriously persuing FFing.

[FLASHOVER05]

So everyone knows I wasn't knocking the program... That was only my opinion and I am only one person... If you can adjust to going to school full time... then do it... It's great