Halifax and Lie Detector

[Flash]

Hi, im just wondering what everyone thinks about having to do a lie detector test for enrollment? im goin through the process now and i am going to be honest but i have heard that an honest person can sti;p; fail if their nervous. and i am.

[RESQTEK]

The polygraph is also being used in Calgary. There are alot of mixed emotions about it but it is there so we must learn to live with it. The best thing to do is get in touch with someone at recruiting with the department you are applying for and ask for some details about the polygraph interview. What is acceptable and what is not. The recruiting people in Calgary are very helpful for cnadidates seeking info about the process. They would rather help you have succes than have you fail due to being unprepared.
http://www.calgaryfire.ca

[Serpico]

Interesting, if a lie detector were to be used on our current membership 80% of our dept. would be gone, including the chief, deputy chief and at least three of the five other officers. If that same lie detector was extended to the current executive of our association I think you would meet with similar results. Its a sad indictment on what has happened to our sense of honour.

[Mongoose]

I totally agree with Serpico on this one. I think this whole move towards polygraph is a sad thing. We know and are trained and told that we must never discredit our respective departments and the profession in general, that should be enough. Like the man said, What ever happend to honor?

Just on another note, polygraph cant really tell if a person is lying or not, just weather their comfortable with the question or not. In the PD it is viewed as an important "tool" sometimes used to get confessions but as you may or may not know the data collected by these "tools" are not admisable in any court I know of, both Canadian or American. To me this speaks to the validity of the data they collect.

[RESQTEK]

I don't like the polygraph either but it is here and we must learn to live with it. It was brought in due to some individuals extra curricular activities bringing discredit to the department. Apparantly being taught and told that we must not discredit our respective department is not enough. It also helped that we hired an woman who used to work for the police recruiting department. Like serpico said, if our current membership had to take a polygraph we would lose quite a few guys due to things done as a kid. The people at recruiting say that if you are clean for 3 years prior to the polygraph you are ok. I'm not sure what to believe. I do think that more needs to be done to ensure we are hiring trust worthy candidates. I don't think the polygraph is the way to do it but I don't know what is. All I know for sure is that the old way of hiring didn't work.

[Smoke20286]

I'd love to be able to use a lie detector as part of contract negotiations

[FFWannabe]

I don't understand the need for the lie detector to be quite honest, they are using it for RCMP hiring now as well. I personally think it is to whittle away at the applicants, as there seems to be so many now.

As for nervousness messing up the results, it isn't possible. I hope I get this right, my father was RCMP for over thrity years and he administered this test for years and taught courses on the administration of it. Basically they ask you some basic everyday questions and when they have an answer that skews the results, they use that as a baseline. MY father told me that one young man was so honest, he kept telling the polygraph operator all kinds of horrible things believing that he had to tell 100% of the truth all the time or something horrible would happen to him... poor guy. They weren't able to obtain a baseline from him because the operator can't tell you this is what they are trying to do. You basically have to hold back a little. If he/she says, "is there anything you have done that you are ashamed of," tell them a story, if they ask you twice, tell them no! This will be their baseline, we've all done things we are ashamed of.

It's an interesting test and is amazingly accurate, and nerves will not skew it, if that were the case, everyone would fail. I couldn't imagine doing this without being nervous. Not to worry!

S.J.

[Flash]

So your telling me that nervousness wont fail you, well i say horse sh@t.
they measure your heart rate, blood pressure, sweat activity and breathing, when your nervous you dont think these levels are gonna rise? there this no such magic machine that can tell if a person is lying, only your bodies response.
I know for myself i look very forward to being a firefighter some day, and have to sit down hooked up to a machine that could be wrong makes me nervous. they say there 90% or so effecive, well how do they know when the 10 % or so is wrong?
they should be taken out of the application process for good

[Whitewater_419]

Flash:

Sure, your nervousness will be reflected on the polygraph, but that will be an overall background level.

Let's say, for example, that complete calm rates a zero and complete paranoid fear rates a ten.

You taking the test in and of itself would probably set you at a level of one or two to reflect for generally elevated heart rate, breathing, perspiration, etc - but that will be constant throughout the test. When they ask you a question that you answer truthfully, your levels won't change, simply because you're nervous only because of the polygraph. Now, if they asked you a question and you lied about it, then your nervousness rises even further - a combination of the nervousness of the polygraph, as well as the worry of being caught.

You've really got nothing to worry about.

-Marc

[Eno_75]

I agree with the polygraph test if every member of the department passes it first. As was already mentioned, most of the guys in Calgary that I know would probably fail it- not because they're bad people, but just because it seems as though they make it near impossible for anyone who has done anything with their life to pass. A guy on our department recently got through the whole process... only to be told by some HR spike that he didn't in fact pass the polygraph (although the guy running it said he did) and that he was trying to be dishonest and gave him a lifetime deferral. Now of course, if you go and fail Calgary's pathetic test then of course you have it on your "record" that you failed their polygraph and that will affect you the next time you have to take one if applying somewhere else. I know I'm a damned good fireman, and in a way I feel as though I'm too damned good to have to worry about getting a smudge on my record because of a tool used in Calgary that is picked apart as much in a courtroom as a drunk witness. Polygraph is seldom admissable in court- nevermind a reason to black list someone because he wants to be a firefighter in Calgary. Unfortunately, the guys on the floor have been noticing a pretty steady decline in the quality of the up and coming classes because most of the people passing had no life experience. It takes a special breed of person, I'd like to think, to suit this community... but unfortunately all of the activities that help manifest these qualities are either questionable or downright wrong.

[JGallagher]

It is used at the Atlantic Police Academy for the Police Cadets. It is the first year doing it. I dont agree with it at all. Though I belive that it is being used to check your life style. Like are you doing drugs or if you have and sexual deviant behaviour. Stuff like that.