Are volunteer firefighters trained like the full-time.

[Christine]

I am very curious, are volunteer firefighters trained?
What type of training in comparison to full-time firefighter do they have?
Thanks for your response.

[LTPVFD]

Hi Christine !!

In answer to your question, I think it is safe to say that almost, without exception, all volunteer firefighters are trained. In many cases, volunteer firefighters are as well, and in some cases, better trained than career firefighters. The only thing that differs is the training schedule. That being said, there are those who consider training to be a nuisance, and do just enough to get by.

Speaking only of my own experiences, I will give you an overview of the training I have completed over the past 12 years:

Basic Firefighting - this includes all skills covered in the textbook Essentials of Fire Fighting

Rescue - this includes auto extrication, confined space, rope, and dive rescue.

Hazmat - I have trained to the "Operations" level.

First Medical Responder and Advanced First Aid

Pump Operator - many hours training on operating a pumping apparatus

Aerial Apparatus Operator

Fire Investigation

Driver Training - to safely operate a variety of fire apparatus, including pumpers, aerial ladders, and rescues.

Officer Training - including Incident Command, Strategies & Tactics, Dealing With People, Finance and Budgeting, Fire Service Instructor

Needless to say, the list goes on and on. With the list, goes the time commitment. Long gone are the days when one "joined up", was issued his/her turnout gear, and was told to respond to calls.

Most departments that I know of train at least once a week - many more often than that. Some members go on to become "trainers or training officers".

In my case I have had the priviledge of serving as an assistant training officer, a training officer responsible for my whole department, and as a training officer in the regional district.

I am sure that my experience(s) reflect those of many others who have been long time volunteers. I am, in no way, unique.

So, in answer to your question - do volunteer firefighters train - the answer is a resounding YES!!

Your question did not indicate if you were a fire fighter - should you join the ranks - best of luck - and get ready for a life long commitment to learning.

LTPVFD :)

[Station208C4]

I agree with ltpvfd I think it is safe to say that almost, without exception, all volunteer firefighters are trained. In many cases, volunteer firefighters are as well, and in some cases, better trained than career firefighters. The only thing that differs is the training schedule. That being said, there are those who consider training to be a nuisance, and do just enough to get by.

It also goes with the Dept too. Depending on which Dept you run with, depends on the training you will receive. My family has been going to a vacation spot near Meadville, Pa (In the US) for many years, the VFD there was comprised of mostly "Mup'eres" (a Mup'ere is a person whom states they are "mup'ere" from where they generally reside, using the word "mup'ere" instead of saying "up here") Anyhow, these same people ran the Dept, as time went on, alot of the "Locals" started to join. However, the Locals did not want to go to any training or basically the Essentials of FF & nothing else.

I walked in there a few years back (with all certs in hand) & was shocked to hear, that after I spent my 3 months as a "probie" that they would move me in the Chief's Position! This because of all the training I have had over a 20 yr (then) span. Their By-laws & SOPs do not state anything beyond the Essentials of Firefighting for training. Yet this same Dept deals with @ least 90% of the Cottages, Trailers & Homes that use Propane for their heating & cooking. I am not "knocking" this same Dept, but it is a shame when the closest responding Dept of 8 miles away can respond to a Structure Fire in this Dept's area, knock it down & under control BEFORE the other Dept arrives!!!

Their Chief holds "only" His Essentials of FF as any type of Certification at all, along with most of the Members there.

My Training is very extensive in itself, close to, what LTPVFD has posted.

Respectfully,
Dave L.
Station 208 C4 (No I am NOT Explosive)
North Braddock VFC##3
http://www.nbvfd3.com

[bestcoast]

Just my 2 cent's on the topic of training and certificates and diploma's etc.....Training is obviously a very important part of the fire service. However there is something i feel that is just as important and that is EXPERIENCE. Some of our senior captain's might not have all the little diploma's and certificates that it seem's everyone is so fast to tell you they have nowadays. But for me personally i'm following the guy with the experience into that burning building rather than the guy with a folder full of certificates...just my opinion......P.S. By experienced firefighter i'm talking career or volunteer.......cheers....

[scoop422]

I agree with bestcoast. Training and certificates are great but no amount of training can make up for experience.

[Skidz]

I am just a newbie of just over a year on Volly. FD and I think it really depends on the type of people that are on that Dept. I am on the VFD and the Volly Ambulance and in my town we have very little intrest in training. Excuses like it is too dark, too cold, or the best one yet I have taken all the courses i need and there is nothing more for to learn. As a newbie I am maybe a little gung-hoe about training and want to learn and do as much as I can. If your dept. is not into the training that you want look for the training on your own and some of the guys will follow and some will just pick it apart. It maybe coin out of your pocket but the practicing and training that you even do on your own may one day save one of these goofs that don't believe in training because it is too cold or dark out. I will probably regret saying this as I am out of shape but I wish my dept. would train like the fulltimers because a house burns the same in a volly. area as it does in the fulltimers area. And accidents and fire don't stop because it is too cold or dark out.

[iamvff]

Hey skiddy boy, I hope you are not putting us all in the same group:D . I've tried, but you get tired of beating your head against a wall. It is funny how a couple of negative attitudes in a group of 19 or 20 guys can take away everyones ambitions. You know, I went to my courses last week thinking that I new a fair bit on the FD, after 14 years of work. Yeah....After hearing stories from the other guys, (mostly larger center guys)I felt pretty stupid. Don't get me wrong, I know enough to be able to do an adequate job, and to save me and my partners ass, but it really opened my eyes to the amount of training that is still out there for the taking. I think that you will find 2005 to be a pretty good year for training if i can have it my way. If enough of us get together we can overcome the (-) attitudes. Lastly, I think you miss quoted the one guy on the FD. I think it was more like....."I have been on the FD for five years now,and have taken training every year. There is nothing else for me to learn!"


:p :D :o :D :o :D

iamvff
Be Safe

[Red_Devil]

I can answer this on both sides of the coin only because I walked in the shoes of a volunteer firefighter before becoming a fulltime professional firefighter.

Now before all you guys and gals get your knickers in a knot because im casting my 2 cents on this one!

First and for most, lets give credit where credit is due. Volunteer depts train train and train. You see in the volunteer setting, they dont run as many calls as a fulltime professional station. Back in my volunteer days we stayed sharp by training. If the calls arent there then you TRAIN, no if and or buts. Yes you do get a few slouches who dont wanna train but most in my dept enjoyed it.

Fulltimers I would say train more, This is true cause its their profession. Be it conducting daily tacticals on building, inspecting buildings for fire hazards, dinner table chats, working out with a daily fitness program, on-going medical training. We only train more then volunteers cause day after day this is our job so we give 100% each day, beacuse its our job and where are there, simply said. We also get to put this training to daily calls with that comes experience.

Volunteers train there butts off, but fulltimers are the front lines, its our profession and we take it serious, we keep up with the ever changing technogoly .we gotta its our PROFESSION,

[Fireknight]

Training is important, but I also have to say that experience is something that can never be taught, training takes place in ideal conditions, where if something goes wrong you can try a new way, career departments running 8 to 10 calls a shift really are training every time the tones go off. all the pieces of paper in the world can not add up to that.

[Red_Devil]

excellent response Fireknight, so true you can train to your blue in the face but coupled with real life experience, then the training becomes priceless

[Toxic]

All of our guys are certified to Level 1 NFPA 1001. Level 1 also includes hazmat awareness and first aid/cpr. Lots of our younger guys are also Level II certified and have hazmat ops as part of that cerification. New recruits must be certified to Level 1 within a year.

We also have some guys who have additional skills as a result of their fulltime careers. Two of our guys are career ambulance guys - both EMT's currently working on PCP. We also have geeky chemical guy (me) who is is a Hazmat technician. Two of our members including our chief are career firefighters in Winnipeg.

Most of our young guys are looking to go career and therefore have taken some extra training. We have a few rescue techs in the bunch as well as several EMT's.

We also have several guys who are certified NFPA 1041 level 1 instructors and one level 2 instructor.

The dept that I am on is very professional and well trained. Many of our guys are younger and have little experience in actual fire situations. However we have enough "old" guys to make us effective.

[tmehmel]

Sounds like Toxic is close by!!

[Toxic]

Close indeed. Just south of Winnpeg in sunny Saint Adolphe.:cool:

[iamvff]

Hey tmehmel

I was in Elie for a fireworks course a short while ago. Some old guy with a dog stopped us when we were setting off the fireworks and gave us all supreme hell. He asked us what we were thinking, half the town is sleeping and the other half is in church............It was 3 in the afternoon:D . Great course, nice town, thanks a bunch:)

Be Safe,
iamvff
Melita, MB.

[tmehmel]

Cool, I took that couse this fall, was raining so we couldn't blow anything up :(

My family escaped from WPG and have fallen in love with it out here and the vfd was icing on the cake! Good to see manitoba people on these boards.

Stay safe!!
Tom

[wilderness]

i would have to say yes..... we are trained as well as full time guys, i went to the fire college and took, hydrocarbon and alot of other courses, now the funny thing was i,m a vollie and we had full timers on the same course's we all learned someting... some more then others..... we train once a week and in the summer it could be just a few guys learning to shuttle water, or confined space rescue, or fire supression, we might not have the tools but we have the desire to do the job professionally and to train like our life depends on it.... and thats because it does...
If your department isn't training, it should be.....
Alot of our guys go to the O.F.C to learn and what they learn is brought back and shared with the other firefighters....

[bestcoast]

Well I can only speak for my department. Being full-time i work a 4 days on 4 days off rotation. In those four days when we are on duty we drill for hours on anything from hose lays to Hazmat. The difference is, in that time we will respond to upwards of 40 runs over those four days. So we get more chances to put our training into actual use on calls. The training for calls is great but not as good as actually going to them and getting better with experience......BC..........

[JGallagher]

Initially yes for our department. They are all trained first as volounteers and when some thing opens they have the oppturintiy to apply for a postion. Then they start more advanced training. As a volounteer I do not touch the truck at all. So if/and when I become a Casual then I learn to operate the truck.

[Fireknight]

Originally posted by JGallagher
They are all trained first as volounteers and when some thing opens they have the oppturintiy to apply for a postion. Then they start more advanced training. As a volounteer I do not touch the truck at all. So if/and when I become a Casual then I learn to operate the truck.




What?!?!

I have never heard of a "casual" fire fighter.

[wilderness]

thats me in my lazy chair......

[JGallagher]

Originally posted by Fireknight


What?!?!

I have never heard of a "casual" fire fighter.

I meant to say casual employment with the city. Where you actully get a pay check.

[Fireknight]

Originally posted by JGallagher
I meant to say casual employment with the city. Where you actully get a pay check.

So you have two classes of firefighters, volunteer(no pay) and part-time(payed)?

[JGallagher]

Originally posted by Fireknight
So you have two classes of firefighters, volunteer(no pay) and part-time(payed)?

Full time-They are there all the time.
Casuals-They fill postions for vaction and sick leave.
Volounteer-Paid on call.

[Fireknight]

Originally posted by JGallagher
Full time-They are there all the time.
Casuals-They fill postions for vaction and sick leave.
Volounteer-Paid on call.

OUUUCHHH!!!! casuals replacing sick and vacationing firefighters, Oh ouch, ouch, my union tattoo is starting to burn and itch!!!.....:(

[Red_Devil]

Casual firefighter.....what the hell is that, i dont think the union would allow a so called "casual firefighter" taking over a union firefighters job, i can bet that would never ever happen

[FireEMTGuy]

Many dept's out "west" have casual positions, and yes, they do fill in for sick, vacationing, or otherwise "open" spots on the schedule. They, for the most part, are not IAFF, and are paid a lesser % of what a full time FF is paid.

Also the union does get a little angry if a casual gets over a certian amount of hours/month. etc.

Oh, and some of these casual positions are in "integrated" services.

(For those of you who don't know integrated services are departments who offer fire/ems within the same station and draw from the same staff. (So much for the FF who can't handle a bit of gore....)

:cool:

[wilderness]

fireknight i have an extinguisher for your union tattoo
as for the itch.... unable to help there but maybe a beer would sooth the pain..............:D

[Fireknight]

Well, I have never heard of casual positions, you learn something new every day.

Beer, help pain...ummmm....beer.....

[bestcoast]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FireEMTGuy
[B]Many dept's out "west" have casual positions, and yes, they do fill in for sick, vacationing, or otherwise "open" spots on the schedule. They, for the most part, are not IAFF, and are paid a lesser % of what a full time FF is paid.





Which Department's out "west" are you refering too?? Not saying your wrong, just curious who's doing it cuz it ain't happening anywhere near me!!!.....BC:cool:

[Hamp42]

Being a fiefighter on paper is all well and good. But, it does take the experience to truly appreciate what we have to deal with sometimes.
All the classrom time in the world does not give you the feel for the job.

[OldCigar]

For HAMP 42. In the army we trained continuously. And it does pay off. If you train properly, then when the sh-t hits the fan, you at least have an idea on how to do it and are not confused.
Having said that, yes, experience is the best teacher, but without poper training, you might not last thru the experience.
Just my view.

[Hamp42]

OldCigar, I certainly believe in training and classroom time (I have a big enough folder of certificates) and continue to train all the time. It is still good to get the feel for the real thing to help remain as calm as possible when you're in front of the fan.:)

[Fireboxer]

Why don't we just get back to her question and focus on that for a second, and try not to turn it into a Full-time, Part-time(oh, pardon me)Volunteer pissing match.
If you want the realities of volunteer or "part-time" training as opposed to full-time i can answer that for you quite easily. The reality is that it is extremly difficult and costly for any municipality to accomodate volunteer or part-time fire fighters with regard to comprehensive and certifiable training. It is also a logistical nightmare and why you say? Because all of these people have full time or part time jobs. How can you possibly hope to meet any kind of an acceptable level of service when you can't meet minimun proficiencies and performance standards as laid out by the insurance institute. The bottom line is that the municipality accepts level of risk based on revenue and tax both generated and collected.
Minimum requirments to work in my municipality as a career Fire Fighter are N.F.P.A. 1001, EMT-A or EMT-P and all fitness and physical requirments. Training is ongoing and continual each and every day. We meet the mandate laid out by the municipality in accordance to level of service.
If you want an accurate answer as to volunteer or part time training as opposed to full time career training, all you have to do is ask what level of service the municipality provides and how the home insurers rate you as a municipality and in terms of risk. Any volunteer that states he has more training than a career Fire Fighter is either lying or does not work. That's not a slam, that is simply the truth. End of discussion.

[smoke286]

Just my 2 cent's on the topic of training and certificates and diploma's etc.....Training is obviously a very important part of the fire service. However there is something i feel that is just as important and that is EXPERIENCE

I agree training is very important but there is NO substitue for experience

[Buckster]

Yep......training plus experience can't be beat

[dentedhead]

Hey fireboxer said end of discussion.Like that will happenLOL

Dentedhead

[iamvff]

That's not a slam, that is simply the truth. End of discussion.
Well, I guess now we know!! and I can't even comment cause it is the end of discussion!! I will just call the fire college and cancel my courses scheduled for next week, because even though they teach them at the fire college, surely they can't be the same ones real firemen take, so whats the point in taking them! Besides...I wouldn't want to break the municipality bank account for just a volunteer firefighter!

Oh, well
I guess I'll go fix the holes in our water buckets
iamvff :rolleyes:

[ABFF37]

I have to add my name to the "training and experience combined" list ;)

Training is great, and as a career firefighter it's something that I do every day. But what I find is just as valuable, if not even more valuable, is the dozens of calls that I attend each week. Furthermore, being able to work under the guidance of an officer who has 30 years of experience behind them, and thousands of calls under their belt.

I would say that I have learned the most relevant and important things out in the field. 1001's etc are great, and they are an absolute necessity (or training af a simmilar level, i.e. recruit school in a career department). But let's face it, what does a basic 1001 course teach you? The bare bones of how to operate ata fire or emergency scene.

It's how you take that knowledge and expand on it, and apply it where all of the real gains are made IMHO.

AB

[iamvff]

I have to add my name to the "training and experience combined" list ;)

Training is great, and as a career firefighter it's something that I do every day. But what I find is just as valuable, if not even more valuable, is the dozens of calls that I attend each week. Furthermore, being able to work under the guidance of an officer who has 30 years of experience behind them, and thousands of calls under their belt.

I would say that I have learned the most relevant and important things out in the field. 1001's etc are great, and they are an absolute necessity (or training af a simmilar level, i.e. recruit school in a career department). But let's face it, what does a basic 1001 course teach you? The bare bones of how to operate ata fire or emergency scene.

It's how you take that knowledge and expand on it, and apply it where all of the real gains are made IMHO.

AB

Couldn't agree more! Good response. The training courses are the same, they are taught by the same instructors using the same guidelines. We also have people on our department with 30+ years experience. The difference that comes into play is the experience part in my opinion. Very very few, if any volunteer depts would have the same amount of calls as a full time, or city dept. Also, the not to many rural dept's run into highrise buildings etc, therefore the level of expertise would be greater for the fulltime dept's, as they have a more diverse job description. My answer to the question would be that the training is the same,or very similar, although maybe not quite as frequent, and the experience is far better for most larger departments simply due to the volume of calls, and the variety of calls.


iamvff

[ABFF37]

Couldn't agree more! Good response. The training courses are the same, they are taught by the same instructors using the same guidelines. We also have people on our department with 30+ years experience. The difference that comes into play is the experience part in my opinion. Very very few, if any volunteer depts would have the same amount of calls as a full time, or city dept. Also, the not to many rural dept's run into highrise buildings etc, therefore the level of expertise would be greater for the fulltime dept's, as they have a more diverse job description. My answer to the question would be that the training is the same,or very similar, although maybe not quite as frequent, and the experience is far better for most larger departments simply due to the volume of calls, and the variety of calls.


Exactly...and I have to say while we're on the topic that I have nothing but the greatest respect for the volunteers out there that train day and night for years, and who ask for nothing in return for their services. I know many volunteer firefighters that have taught me a thing or two as well! :)

AB

[iamvff]

Well, that does it then...Ab and I agree so this must now be the end of discussion! :D ;)

iamvff

[ABFF37]

I second that motion ;)

[dentedhead]

Moved by IAMVFF

Seconded By ABFF37

Carried.Oh boy union meeting tonight.

Bet the discussion aint over. I dont hear any fat ladies singing

Dentedhead

[smoke286]

Yeah like a brilliant person once said, training is good, but no substitute for experience. Oh wait..... That was me.

[iamvff]

Yeah like a brilliant person once said, training is good, but no substitute for experience. Oh wait..... That was me.
Hey...we agreed that the discussion was over...your brilliance is a totally different thread!! ;)

iamvff

[smoke286]

Hey...we agreed that the discussion was over...your brilliance is a totally different thread!! ;)

iamvff

Several possibly

[Rojaig]

Hi Christine
we are a combination department - part career and part paid on call
our members are trained to the following min.
- fire fighter level 1 and 2
- hazardous materials awareness and ops
optional
- driver / operator
- instructor level 1 and 2
- first responder (medical)

we also do local training involving rope rescue, incident command, building construction and a few others that seem to slip my mind. Out training is on weekends and wednesday nights. we train hard outdoors in the summer and usually do class work in the long cold winter. Hope this gives you alittle more insight
Robby
Weyburn, SK, CA