Drinking in depts.

[Serpico]

It seems there are still a lot of Old Boys out there that think its still O.K. to have a couple in the club then hop behind the wheel of the fire truck or respond to the first reponder call. Maybe a national policy is required to get the point across, the problem is there are too many alcoholics that keep saying "we're all adults here, we know when we've had too many"( apparently not).

[firechief4037]

i am a voluteer fire chief and think that every fire dept should not have little behind the scene bars within thier department it can make for a dangerous mix ( private clubs)

[firewhirly]

you seem to be one of the enlightened few..

[ssifire]

Make it a department S.O.G. If you crack a beer, you're not going out if that pager goes. It's that simple. At least then, the dept has some recourse if the rules are not being followed.

Fine / Suspension / Dismissal

[firewhirly]

I whole heartedly agree with you..however when the problems start at the top... and the dept is seen as more of a social club. It's a tough problem to resolve....
It's an old school,old boys club way of thinking.. and sadly I seriously doubt things will change unless someone get's injured or the worst possible senario.. killed.
You can talk until you're blue in the face to some of these guys.. they can't see the wrong in having "a few beer" or so ..and then responding to a call or even just heading out for the drive home...

I just hope that I never have to reposnd to an MVC due to thier ignorence and selfish stupidity, sadly though.. it's more of a "when" it'll happen than an "if".

[firefighter9calt]

In our Dept if you open the beer it is all right if you have had a mouthful don,t even bother going to the hall. If we smell alcohol you will be missing more than one call.

[smoke286]

I must admit to the best of my knowlege it is still accepted practice here in Newfoundland, most volunteer Fire Stations still have a bar in the station. Some years ago when the city annexed a smaller town that had a volunteer station> The press became aware that there was a bar in the station . When questioned both the Provincial Fire Commisioner and the City's Mayor defended the practice. To my way of thinking, [and I will admit up front I don't drink] Liquor doesn't belong in a Fire Station, paid or volunteer

[canadiancarebear]

I never used to stick around after Monday night training and last Monday I did, the guys all go upstairs and drink after. I don't just mean one beer either. What if we got a call on a Monday night?
There's one other woman in my department, she goes home early so she isn't there during this and I felt weird being the only female. I'm not 19, so I can't drink... but I'll be 19 next month and I do NOT support drinking and driving. I value my life, my car, and other people's lives too much.
Firefighters are out saving people's lives, but drinking at the department and driving home is a major problem and the opposite of what we are setting out to do in the community. I don't think it's necessary... there's one fridge with alcohol and one with Pepsi and 7Up, why can't the pop be enough? I understand the desire to "relax" and "unwind", but we don't need alcohol to do that!
I am going to college in September and taking a 2 year addictions counselling program.

[cdnbacon]

In our hall sometimes someone brings up a case of beer for after practice. No one goes overboard with it and stops their limit. We have SOG's about responding to calls when drinking so it's not a problem. Personally, as soon as I have one I don't respond just to avoid any problems.

[K9kazoo]

It seems that most of the replies thus far are volunteer or rural based... what about career departments/services? Would you want to be taking an order from a Captain that's had a beer(s)??? or what ever the flavor of the night may be?

B.

[dentedhead]

It seems that most of the replies thus far are volunteer or rural based... what about career departments/services? Would you want to be taking an order from a Captain that's had a beer(s)??? or what ever the flavor of the night may be?

B.

Not unless you want to go home and explain to the bride why your pay is going to be short that week and how come you seem to be enjoying more days off.If it was in fact you who HBD.

If its your cappy then its up to the individual and his shift to address it immediatly.Be it through official channels or off the record.

Dentedhead

[Scuba]

As much as drinking in departments is considered a 'bad' thing....I don't really see the big deal with it as long as people understand where to draw the line, and there's an established HBD policy in effect. IMHO under no circumstance should someone who is intoxicated be anywhere near an inciednt.

My reasoning for saying that is that as a department of volunteers called together from all walks of life to do something that everyone dreads there has to be some kind of social interaction inorder to get the 'gears' all working together.....

Throw a bunch of equaly trained strangers ina firehall and give them the address of a working structure fire....it just isn't going to work.

[Leafs Fan]

It seems that most of the replies thus far are volunteer or rural based... what about career departments/services? Would you want to be taking an order from a Captain that's had a beer(s)??? or what ever the flavor of the night may be?

B.

in career depts, drinking is an offence that can get you terminated. People do not generally risk their careers that pay the mortgage and feed the kids. This is one of the differences between volunteer and career, career has way more to lose.

[Scuba]

As well, Career is a career - you know when you start, when you finish, how long you'll be at the hall for....unlike us professional volunteers - we're on call 24/7.

[dentedhead]

As well, Career is a career - you know when you start, when you finish, how long you'll be at the hall for....unlike us professional volunteers - we're on call 24/7.

Lets not start all this again please.

All animals are created equal...some animals are more equal than others.- George Orwell Animal farm.

[Scuba]

Not starting anything DH - I'm just saying that as a career firefighter you know when you'll be called on to work a fire - we don't have that luxury.

[dentedhead]

Not starting anything DH - I'm just saying that as a career firefighter you know when you'll be called on to work a fire - we don't have that luxury.

I know SJ, its just going to be a topic that will show up in every forum.

To counter as I mustlol,I used this example in THE thread on this topic.

This Xmas day I start my rotation on a 24 hr shift that sucks but it goes with the job.You on the other hand at least get to be with your family and friends hoping that your pager stays quiet.I will be away from my wife and kids.

I wish I had the luxury of knowing when a call will come in...so I go to the washroom before the next commercial.

Dentedhead

[Scuba]

Your thinking way too deep into what I was saying bro...

All I mean is I'm sitting here crack a beer and 30 seconds later the pager screams - whereas being fulltime the question of alcohol while on duty is an obvious no. You know that from 6am on christmas eve to 6am on christmas day you will not consume booze.

Oh, and btw - if all we have to do is agree to miss christmas day I'll accept your job offer..... :)
-=EOD=-

[dentedhead]

Your thinking way too deep into what I was saying bro...

All I mean is I'm sitting here crack a beer and 30 seconds later the pager screams - whereas being fulltime the question of alcohol while on duty is an obvious no. You know that from 6am on christmas eve to 6am on christmas day you will not consume booze.

Oh, and btw - if all we have to do is agree to miss christmas day I'll accept your job offer..... :)
-=EOD=-

Understood my confusion,I guess Im still fragile from my traumatic event yesterdayLOL.With 6yo and 10yo daddies girls Ill take you up on that Xmas offer.Thats all I care about Xmas now, my kiddies,otherwise just another day of forced goodwill.

Dentedhead

[BCFFFV]

As much as drinking in departments is considered a 'bad' thing....I don't really see the big deal with it as long as people understand where to draw the line, and there's an established HBD policy in effect. IMHO under no circumstance should someone who is intoxicated be anywhere near an inciednt.

My reasoning for saying that is that as a department of volunteers called together from all walks of life to do something that everyone dreads there has to be some kind of social interaction inorder to get the 'gears' all working together.....

Throw a bunch of equaly trained strangers ina firehall and give them the address of a working structure fire....it just isn't going to work.





I agree.....I think that ANY volunteer has the right to drink as long as it's not on fire dept. property. If you are out having a couple of beers with dinner and you then get paged to respond you should obviously be under the legal limit the same as you would be if you were driving home. I don't buy the argument that as a volunteer if you have 1 beer you shouldn't be able to respond. Obviously for full timers the employer has the right to say no drinking while on duty.....as well as not showing up drunk.

[dave5171]

I believe that no dept. should have beer served in them. I know of one department in Ontario (Not Mine) who had served beer in there hall many years ago and after a call some of the guys stuck around and had a couple of beers. After a while the Chief decided to go home. 20 or so minutes later the pager screamed "Single Vehical MVA extrication required" Upon arriving on scene they found thier Chief's truck wrapped around a pole. The Chief was prononced DOA. That was the last night beer was ever served in a Fire hall in that Township and to this day that township has very stricted SOG's about beer and fire calls.
I know that this is worst case I ever heared of but the point is that it's not "what if" anymore it's now "it happens".

[kriand]

I believe that no dept. should have beer served in them. ".

So is liquor OK??
What about the guy having beer at his house/pub/neighbors etc..
and goes to a call??
What about a fire dept. social function?? Can beer be served there.
Don't put the blame on beer in the firehall....put the blame on the guy doing the excess drinking and then driving. Using your logic , beer should be banned every where for firefighters.

[dave5171]

I'm not putting the blame on anyone and responding to calls when you have a beer in ya is your own discression, but what kind of message are volunteer fire depts sending to the general public when we allow drinking at the hall as a social event then drive home. Are we not supposted to be against drinking and driving. I know myself I've been on too may scenes where drinking has been a issue and know damb well it could have been prevented. As a firefighter were supposted to represent the fire hall with best respect we can give. That means to me if I have one to may beers at home, I'm missing that call, because there is nothing more embarssing then a drunk firefighter on a scene because it become more than a liabity then a asset. Thats just my opinion though I don't speak for everyone. Sorry I kind of ran on a little but my basic point is this, as a indivial (sp) you pretty much can do what you want. Thats the freedom given to you, but when you represent other people like your fellow firefighters and the department as a whole you as a indivial (sp) have a higher responsablity. Your actions refect the departments image and how do you want your department to be seen? Myself I have a great deal of pride and respect for the fire department in general and anyone who damages that image pisses me off and needs to re-think about why they are there to begin with. Like I said though this is just my opinion.

[Whitewater_419]

I'm in agreement with no alcohol of any kind for any reason in a firehall of any type. Drinking on your own time, that's fine - drinking at the nerve center for fire rescue of a township ? That sends a message to the public that is wrong on *so* many levels.

Our hall captain is *very* (justifiably) strict about FF's and drinking: If you've had a drink or two and the pager goes off - don't respond. If you arrive on scene and you smell of booze, or look/act like you're under the influence, you'll be asked (and the term "ask" isn't meant to be interpreted as if you have an option in the result) to leave the scene and expect to be handing in your pager and ID the following day.

It's not all that tough; Our system is pretty simple: Three battalions that are rotated on call each week - during that week, you don't drink - If you do (and we've all run into situations where there's a party, a wedding, whatever), all you have to do is get someone to agree to cover you for that night - it's an easy and reasonable system.

Even when I'm not on call, once I start my second drink, on the odd times that I do drink, I turn my pager off, simply so that the temptation isn't even there. When I know that I'm clear headed enough that I could drive a car AND pass a breathalyzer, then I'll turn my pager back on.

[MFDFF33]

I hear you there WW, there's too much of the liability factor that comes into play. A lot of people think "Oh one beer won't hurt" but it could come back and nip you and your department in the butt, From what I've heard N.B. is changing their alcohol tollerance for driving, as far as I'm concerned it should be zero tollerance, same goes for Calls. I'm not against any departments having beer in the hall. I just think that if you choose to open that cap, then you choose not to jump into a truck to go to the scene.

[smoke286]

So is liquor OK??
What about the guy having beer at his house/pub/neighbors etc..
and goes to a call??
What about a fire dept. social function?? Can beer be served there.
Don't put the blame on beer in the firehall....put the blame on the guy doing the excess drinking and then driving. Using your logic , beer should be banned every where for firefighters.

There should be NO liquor of any kind in the fire station. A person under the influence of alcohol is in no position to judge wether he is legally sober or not. Liabilities being what they are (not to mention common sense) should dictate that

[MFDFF33]

So is liquor OK??
What about the guy having beer at his house/pub/neighbors etc..
and goes to a call??
What about a fire dept. social function?? Can beer be served there.
Don't put the blame on beer in the firehall....put the blame on the guy doing the excess drinking and then driving. Using your logic , beer should be banned every where for firefighters.

I have to agree with Smoke on this one, but if your dept does have a function with Liquor then they just need to designate a specific number of Fire Fighters to not drink. It's one of the reasons I decided to give up drinking, once you get past the odd Beer craving it's fine and this way I won't have to worry about not being able to respond.

[ndvfd_ff33]

Only time we have liquor in our Firehall is on New Years and Christmas....And we have a neighbouring dept on stand-by incase we do get a call

[Buckster]

No liquor in our station....we are volunteer but still treat our firehouse the same as any place of business

[xmozzazx]

No alcohol in my station here either. Zero tolerance for responding while under the influence. I relieved a firefighter from the scene once, for being intoxicated. Had him dropped off at home, nice and safe like, by a fellow vollunteer. He walked back to the station, jumped back in his car and returned to the scene. Now what do I do? Can't let him drive back home: I am now liable. Can't let him stay: still liable.
*Dispatch, 10-200*

Think of who else is at risk, if you show up with a few drinks under your belt.

[FireChef]

We have a yearly golf tournament, and the department buys the booze for the potluck dinner after, but the chief insists that we have atleast 4 sober guys just incase we get a call. Which is fair enough, he was actually one of the sober duty members that night.

We also have booze at the hall for after practice. Everyone will have 1 or 2, but that's it, but there are some of us that just drink pop. We had one call at there was about 4 of us at the hall together, and one of them said that he had a few beers, and he wasn't comfortable to drive the truck, so he went with another guy in his truck to the call. I was impressed by him being responsible.

[kriand]

. We had one call at there was about 4 of us at the hall together, and one of them said that he had a few beers, and he wasn't comfortable to drive the truck, so he went with another guy in his truck to the call. I was impressed by him being responsible.


But he still went to the call???

[rescuechris]

But he still went to the call???


Maybe he changed air bottles......


My first actual call was even before I was a firefighter (let me explain)

My uncle is a chief in a volly dept. about an hour from Montreal. I was down visiting and he asked if I wanted to participate in a mutual aid simulation. Of course I jumped at the opportunity. After the simulation I helped the guys repack and wash the trucks at the hall. Being a warm saturday afternoon it wasn't long before the cooler full of beer showed up and the guys started putting them back. Being only 16 and knowing my parents would be by soon I thought it best not to reak of beer (my parents are quite conservative) so I drank cola. about an hour later the tones drop for a fully involved barn fire, so of course the chief starts asking to see who's been drinking. I raise my hand sort of as a joke and low and behold I was asked/told to drive.

Let me tell you it was the time of my life, but it goes to show that you always have to have some sober guys and gals ready to go.

Where I volunteer we have weekends where our team is on call which means no booze what so ever. I think it's great cause it's a cheap weekend for me and it ensures the proper coverage of the population.

[DoubleHelix]

But he still went to the call???


Exactly, Whats the difference between operating a heavy vehicle under the influence or putting yourself inches away from fire under the influence.

The fact you have to question whether you're able to drive or not is proof enough you have no right being near a fireground, MVC or any other call you would be called upon to attend.

I'm sure it happens all the time but that doesn't make it right.

[MFDFF33]

I'm sure it happens all the time but that doesn't make it right.

Unfortunately you're probably right. I'm one of the people who now opt not to drink this way others can enjoy it, and I can still respond ;)

[origin76]

As much as drinking in departments is considered a 'bad' thing....I don't really see the big deal with it as long as people understand where to draw the line, and there's an established HBD policy in effect. IMHO under no circumstance should someone who is intoxicated be anywhere near an inciednt.

My reasoning for saying that is that as a department of volunteers called together from all walks of life to do something that everyone dreads there has to be some kind of social interaction inorder to get the 'gears' all working together.....

Throw a bunch of equaly trained strangers ina firehall and give them the address of a working structure fire....it just isn't going to work.

So let's have a few beers to get everyone comfortable with each other??? That is utter crap. I am shocked to learn that depts out there have bars, let alone a case in the fridge. There is no reason to be drinking at work, especially a job of this calibre. Leave it for off-duty, and don't call me a boyscout.

[origin76]

So is liquor OK??
What about the guy having beer at his house/pub/neighbors etc..
and goes to a call??
What about a fire dept. social function?? Can beer be served there.
Don't put the blame on beer in the firehall....put the blame on the guy doing the excess drinking and then driving. Using your logic , beer should be banned every where for firefighters.

That is absurd... I don't get why you are defending having alcohol in the dept. unless you would be one of those who has a drink while on shift. Social functions are off-duty...have a blast. Having a beer as a volunteer while you're off, then get called in is beyond your control. Knowing what you signed up for, you should try to keep it under control as much as possible, but if you're over, then you should obviously decline to attend the call as you could be adding to the danger of the scene, IMO.

[ndvfd_ff33]

.....Not worth causing a scene.