young firefighters

[hfdfirejr]

as a jr. i still look at my self as a firefighter...i contribute to the station train and assist during calls but i no i have earned the respect of my knolage i have accquired from the elders and experience wiht in our appartment but people still look down on Jr's and i dont feel that is right..is there a reason why or how this could be changed...i feel that if we contribute and work hard to for better things as much as possible than we should earn some respect not as a leader but as a person.

[Michael13]

It's all about experience. You may train your butt off, and attend all the meetings and practices and think you know what it takes to run a FD but theres alot of politics behind closed doors. When a Chief and his officers have meetings behind closed doors with other agencies or the Municipal council for example theres alot of things that go on, things firefighters or juniors don't know about. Every emergency response is different and I believe it all comes back on the older guys that have been there, done that. You are respected as a person, but there is a totem pole and you are on the bottom. You may not like it there, but it happens everywhere you go...not just in a FD. Every organization or corporation has it, and you must earn respect. Just continue to prove yourself and learn as you go. You will get there someday...it has alot to do with personality. I know alot of smart people who will excel at something in their life someday, but these folks will never excel in a FD...I believe it has everything to do with what comes out your mouth..I'm sure everyone can relate to this...everyone knows that smart mouth who might be the nicest guy or girl in town, but they just give you that funny feeling that you can't trust them...keep working hard and you will find the respect you are looking for.

[ABFF37]

...I believe it has everything to do with what comes out your mouth...

Ditto ;)

AB

[CanadianFF31]

I look at it like this:

Whether you are talking about being a jr. firefigher in a volunteer fire department or the junior man on a full time department, you are in a paramilitary organization where those at the bottom are there to use the 2 ears, 2 eyes, 1 mouth rule. There are different levels of traditions in departments with respect to how rookies are treated, but generally in the fire service rookies get all the crap jobs, are the butt of all the jokes, are blamed for all the mistakes, etc. And at the end of the day when you've sucked it up and taken everything they've thrown at you with a smile on your face, your crew members respect you for it. Because every firefighter was once on the bottom and went through the same thing you're going through. The most crusty captain or chief was once the lowly rookie with boots full of water or a mattress of tin cans!

I don't think the hard part about being a firefighter has anything to do with the amount of physical labour or bad calls you see, the hard part is learning to be humble and to have thick skin. Hang in there, keep your mouth shut, eyes and ears open, and enjoy being part of the team. Although you might feel disrespected right now, it just part of the game.

FF31

[Scuba]

as a jr. i still look at my self as a firefighter...i contribute to the station train and assist during calls but i no i have earned the respect of my knolage i have accquired from the elders and experience wiht in our appartment but people still look down on Jr's and i dont feel that is right..is there a reason why or how this could be changed...i feel that if we contribute and work hard to for better things as much as possible than we should earn some respect not as a leader but as a person.


You have problems with your department and how it's run - isn't it more productive to deal with the problem itself (if infact there is a problem) rather than jumping around everywhere execpt where the problem could be solved screaming about how you don't like things? Come on bud - airing your dirty laundry isn't a good thing. I can tell just from my experience through here you guys have some awsome folks leading your department - go talk to them - they're there to make sure the department is functioning well - that you're safe, and satisfied with your volunteer contribution......they aren't your enemies.

[wilderness]

What one are you?

When it comes to older and wiser members, i don't have to like what they say, but out of respect i listen, now that being said as a rookie god gave me two ears and one mouth, right off the bat that means i listen more then i speak, being a rookie doesn't mean you know nothing, but then again it doesn't mean you know everything either.... be tacful and earn there respect........


ooh i found this one
Do You Just Belong?

(This poem is dedicated to the Volunteers)



Are you an active member,

The kind that would be missed.

Or are you just contented,

That your name is on the list?

Do you attend the meetings,

And mingle with the flock,

Or do you meet in private,

And criticize and knock?

Do you take an active part,

To help the work along,

Or are you satisfied to be,

The kind who just belongs?

Do you work on committees-

To this there is no trick-

Or leave the work to just a few,

And talk about the clique?

So come to meetings often,

And help with hand and heart,

Don't just be a member,

But take an active part.

Think this over colleagues,

You know what's right from wrong,

Are you a valued member,

Or do you just belong?

[hfdfirejr]

i respect some of our members but i feel theres other members that must earn my respect and i should have to earn theres but whne it comes to safty theres folks i wont go in to a fire with id rather go in alone....sorry to say id feel safer theres members that have alot of years that are over looked by some newer members..and i feel that if others dont respect the years and experience of others than it hard fo r me to respect them....
we have one member with 55 years of service and hes over looked alot becasue of his old school style but i feel that the old school has its good points the more water the better and hit it hard and fast like thats stuff that firefighting is all about to me and i think just beause you have a sheet of paper that says your trained if you dont have expirence than why have it al all.
practice is what proves and real action in a fire proves your readyness

[hfdfirejr]

i respect my self and you gonna tell me theres people you dont trust?
and that you would go in to a fire wiht any one???

[wilderness]

How many years you been on?
How many fires you been to?
I trust everyone at my department, because we are a team......

[hfdfirejr]

ive been one for over 1 1/2 still a Jr. but theres stillmy saftey im looking out for

[wilderness]

1.5 years enough said...............:mad:
why not go to you officer with some of your concerns, instead of posting them here, all your going to, succeed in doing, is pissing someone off and you'll be down the road looking for another hall

[hfdfirejr]

id like to thnak you ......i am talking to much and i have lots ot learn and im sorry i questioned you
thanks
find um hot leavr um wet

[Scuba]

*ahhhhhhh* the silence........ ABOUT FRIGGIN TIME!

Nothing personal - believe me - im a young member of a fire department too. You don't learn anything flapping your face. Try listening - pay attention - you're still a junior for gods sake man - no need to try and reorganize the world when it seemed to be runnin just fine without you for the previous 98.5 years your departments been in existance.

*ARGH* Would someone get me a valium please? Maybe 2? :mad:

[ABFF37]

we have one member with 55 years of service and hes over looked alot becasue of his old school style but i feel that the old school has its good points the more water the better and hit it hard and fast like thats stuff that firefighting is all about to me

There are some pretty fundamental reasons why this is considered to be an old school of thought, maybe if you knew some of them you'd understand where other members of your department are coming from. Maybe it would even help you resolve some of the "issues" that you seem to have with your department.

Ever wondered why the fire service switched to fog nozzles from solid stream for interior attacks? Fog nozzles mix water and air together in a way that makes the water more effective in firefighting. Therefore, you need to use less to extinguish the blaze. Or what about firefighting foam? Why do we have that? Again, it makes the water that we use a better extinguishing agent, and alters the properties in ways that make us able to use it sparingly. A lot of departments are starting to run with CAFS, Compressed Air Foam System. This system mixes water, foam, and pressurized air, and has proven to produce about the most effective wetting and extinguishing water streams. And AGAIN...we need to use less water to perform our operations.

Using a solid stream nozzle and a ton of water indiscriminately not only increases the property dammage, it increases risk to firefighters by introducing a tremendous amount of water weight in a short time (augmenting the potential for structural collapse in a weakened building). Furthermore, there are many fire environments where the last thing you want to do is throw around a ton of water. Try crawling into a basement fire that has been going for a while and blasting the hell out of it with your line...I can guarantee you that you'll have some great steam burns to show off. A scenario like this requires a coordinated effort with ventilation and an appropriate interior attack.

The surround and drown mentality is pretty much only used these days if a structure is fully involved and you're just going to contain it from the exterior making no interior attacks.

I'd have a hard time explaining to a homeowner why the kitchen fire that would have caused $10 000 dollars in dammage has been doubled in severity because of a flooded house, wrecked walls, ceilings, and furniture from the indiscriminate use of water. Just some food for thought...

AB

[Punctualdeer]

You should try to learn from the older. Ask some question and interest on the job. What you learn at school some time in life it's different for the firefighter, police and medic. There his no fire looking the same. Has a pumper driver since 6 years, i try to tranfert my experiance to the rooky because i don't go any more inside. The only thing i say his to try to remember what i say if a situation get to you.

[hfdjuniorbezant]

hfdfirejr if u want respect u have to show it to other members. i know alot of members that respect juniorsbut if you say bad things you will lose respect fast. you may think juniors get the bad end of the pole and that we get no respect but that is not true. juniors have to earn respect and juniors may get picked on every now and than but you have to put up with it, ignore it, and have good faith because in due time you will not be a junior anymore.

[hfdjuniorbezant]

i'm sorry if my last email sounded harsh but i'm trying to make things clear. next time I'LL keep MY mouth shout.

[DFCSmash]

as a jr. i still look at my self as a firefighter...i contribute to the station train and assist during calls but i no i have earned the respect of my knolage i have accquired from the elders and experience wiht in our appartment but people still look down on Jr's and i dont feel that is right..is there a reason why or how this could be changed...i feel that if we contribute and work hard to for better things as much as possible than we should earn some respect not as a leader but as a person.
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This is what I read from that.
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As a jr., I still look at myself as a firefighter. I contribute to the station, train, and assist during calls. I know I have earned the respect of the knowledge I have aquired from the elders and experience within our department. But people still look down on jrs. and I don't feel that this is right. Is ther a reason why, or how could this be changed? I feel that if we contribute and work hard too, for better things as much as possible, then we should earn some respect, not as a leader, but as a person.

As a firefighter, I still look at you as a Junior.

As evidenced by your posts here, there are two things that immediately spring to the fore;

1) you are enthusiastic about learning, and wish to pass your new found knowledge and wisdom on to others. ALL others. Regardless of age, experience, location or rank. In your long and (I am sure) storied 18 month career you have amassed enough knowledge to run a Fire Department. You have a complete and thorough understanding of tactics, policies and procedures and as such, you are dumbfounded by the fact that senior firefighters aren't looking to you for all the answers. Junior, you don't even know the questions yet.

2)In your delusions of knowledge and ability, you expect respect. Junior, from what I have read from you here, you are in all liklihood receiving all DUE respect from the members of your department.

Here's how the 20+ juniors we have had on my department lived through their junior careers. THEY DID WHAT THEY WERE TOLD. They accepted the instruction, direction and ribbing that they got. They gave a small amount of that ribbing back. To show they had some spunk. That earned them some respect. They didn't whine and moan about how little they were valued. They recognized that their contribution to the department was perhaps not as involved as the senior members, but was just as valued. That earned them some respect. As their experience grew, so did their contribution. They did all the crap jobs they were asked (told) to do. To help out the more senior members. That earned them some respect. When they had issues, they came to the senior members and asked questions directly of them. They didn't publicly question policies, procedures, tactics or decisions at school, or in the coffee shop, or for that matter, on a public forum. That earned them some respect.
Here's the breakdown on the 20. 2 quit after less than 1 year. 8 of them became probationary members, then full members. 8 went on to post secondary education. 3 went on to careers in EMS. But 18 of the 20, the ones who stuck it out, come back to visit on a regular basis. The 2 that quit, joined for the wrong reasons. Resumee padding. (I know that's not how to spell resume, but I can't find the dang accent) And they are all welcomed and still feel like part of the crew. Because they earned some respect. They have great stories to tell and to share. "Remember when..." or "I'd never have thought..."

With age comes wisdom, in most cases. Some never learn. And they're not all juniors.

So what I am telling you, Junior, is that you are asking a lot of your questions in the wrong places. By all means, ask your questions, but ask them in the right places. Or else you won't ever earn some respect. Keep working hard, ask your questions in the right venue, show respect, and you'll have a great time and learn lots. Don't do those things and ...

[Workingfire]

Maybe the HFD should get their own page! I don't know how many times you see each other in a week, but try communicating!

Wow...

How many of your members are on this site?

[Michael13]

/\
This is what I read from that.
\/
As a jr., I still look at myself as a firefighter. I contribute to the station, train, and assist during calls. I know I have earned the respect of the knowledge I have aquired from the elders and experience within our department. But people still look down on jrs. and I don't feel that this is right. Is ther a reason why, or how could this be changed? I feel that if we contribute and work hard too, for better things as much as possible, then we should earn some respect, not as a leader, but as a person.

As a firefighter, I still look at you as a Junior.

As evidenced by your posts here, there are two things that immediately spring to the fore;

1) you are enthusiastic about learning, and wish to pass your new found knowledge and wisdom on to others. ALL others. Regardless of age, experience, location or rank. In your long and (I am sure) storied 18 month career you have amassed enough knowledge to run a Fire Department. You have a complete and thorough understanding of tactics, policies and procedures and as such, you are dumbfounded by the fact that senior firefighters aren't looking to you for all the answers. Junior, you don't even know the questions yet.

2)In your delusions of knowledge and ability, you expect respect. Junior, from what I have read from you here, you are in all liklihood receiving all DUE respect from the members of your department.

Here's how the 20+ juniors we have had on my department lived through their junior careers. THEY DID WHAT THEY WERE TOLD. They accepted the instruction, direction and ribbing that they got. They gave a small amount of that ribbing back. To show they had some spunk. That earned them some respect. They didn't whine and moan about how little they were valued. They recognized that their contribution to the department was perhaps not as involved as the senior members, but was just as valued. That earned them some respect. As their experience grew, so did their contribution. They did all the crap jobs they were asked (told) to do. To help out the more senior members. That earned them some respect. When they had issues, they came to the senior members and asked questions directly of them. They didn't publicly question policies, procedures, tactics or decisions at school, or in the coffee shop, or for that matter, on a public forum. That earned them some respect.
Here's the breakdown on the 20. 2 quit after less than 1 year. 8 of them became probationary members, then full members. 8 went on to post secondary education. 3 went on to careers in EMS. But 18 of the 20, the ones who stuck it out, come back to visit on a regular basis. The 2 that quit, joined for the wrong reasons. Resumee padding. (I know that's not how to spell resume, but I can't find the dang accent) And they are all welcomed and still feel like part of the crew. Because they earned some respect. They have great stories to tell and to share. "Remember when..." or "I'd never have thought..."

With age comes wisdom, in most cases. Some never learn. And they're not all juniors.

So what I am telling you, Junior, is that you are asking a lot of your questions in the wrong places. By all means, ask your questions, but ask them in the right places. Or else you won't ever earn some respect. Keep working hard, ask your questions in the right venue, show respect, and you'll have a great time and learn lots. Don't do those things and ...

I give this a second thought, only because a issue related to this has happened to a very close friend of mine. I want you and others here at FH to understand that maybe this Junior is coming from somewhere and so far this is as far as he has turned for help. Everyone new in a profession gets ribbed and picked on and they are worked hard. In the case of my friend, she was to the point of wanting to quit because she could no longer handle the way the job was. She cried everyday, was depressed and held it inside for a while because she thought it was normal. The turnover rate of employees with this company was tremendous. People would work for a while and leave. Only reason people go to this place was because the pay was sometimes twice as much as the other places to work. The longest employees that were not close friends to the boss or part owners have only been working there for 2 or 3 years. I recently heard that they are now gone. (This all happened 1.5 years ago). My friend was getting dumped on, shat on, pissed on and she couldnt take it. So she took some steps and got transferred elsewhere. Now what was going on with her was illegal. You at HFD are smart enough to know that if the actions of other members is illegal or not. If there is nothing going on thats ilegal then everything is normal. It happens everywhere. In my friends case, she was brand new to the career and for a while she thought it was normal for her boss to treat her like he did. After a while she told friends, parents, people close to her and we told her it wasn't right so she got out. She realized it wasn't worth the money or the hassle to live a life like that. I am assuming nothing like this is going on in HFD but I thought I would let you know of an instance where it has happened where no one thought it would. Surpriseingly it is still contining today because the job she is in is so close. Coworkers she now works with also came from this other company after having enough. It is to the point where the school isnt allowing students to do apprentiships at that location because of what has happnened in the past. If students apply there, they just say no and say "you dont want to go there, trust us". Unfortunate, and makes me mad to know that all happened to my friend when it shouldnt have, but know that its out there. But moderate ridiculing, ribbing, being picked on, all that is normal. My rant here is done...consider yourself warned and lucky because someone has warned you. I wish someone warned my friend.

[Buckster]

Hmmmm....judging by what I've seen in this thread....it could be a possibility that the members have no problem with jrs as a whole, but maybe on an individual basis....attitude...

[firefighter26]

I guess the only thing I will add is a few words of wisdom from my chief (which he said to someone else, not me. but I was in the office at the time to hear it)

"You don't have to like everyone in this department, nor does everyone in this department have to like you. I can't make you be friends with anyone, and I can't make anyone be friends with you. I don't expect you to hang out with these people in your off time, nor do I expect them to invite you over to their homes for dinner. What I do expect is that from the moment you walk through that door that you will co-operate and work together to get the job done. If you can't do that then you're useless to me, useless to the crew, and useless to the community and I will find someone else to fill your gear."

To me this sounds like the classic "give them an inch, they expect a mile" routine. Yes, juniors do contribute to the department. They attend meetings, they do training. But they're still juniors and they still have a lot to learn about fighting fires regardless of how many training nights they attend.

Whoever said it was right, this is a para-military organization and I am sorry to say but Juniors are the bottom rung.... even below probie. Probies get all the crap jobs, but that just goes with the territory.

When I joined I knew I was going to get all the crap jobs. Washing gear, rolling hose, sweeping the bays, cleaning bathrooms, cooking, etc, etc. But I expected it. I took the crappy jobs and went at them with determination and got it done, all the while with a smile on my face. For the longest time I was the yougest person on the department and that made me feel like I wasn't being respected, just like I am sure you feel. But I put my time in, learned from those above me and did the tasks that I was assigned to do regardless of what the task was or whether I thought it was "below" me or not.

That was all part of the job. Everyone does their time as the lower than dirt probie. I would hazard to guess that is how we gain our tough skin for dealing with some of the things on the job. It takes a special kind of person to be a firefighter; not everyone can do it.

When I become an officer I was also the youngest one in the department. I was in charge of training people coming onto the department (rookies) and some of these people where nearly twice my age. At first they didn't give me a lot of respect, a lot like your situation. How did I earn their respect? By showing them that I could not only do the job but I could do it well enough to be trusted to teach them how to do it by those above me.

How can you earn respect? Ham just told you. I don't know Ham all that well but from what I have read of his posts it sounds like he is a more than capable officer so pay attention to what he has to say!

word count: 551 - sorry for the long rant..... it has been a boring day at work!

[Buckster]

Its kinda odd that we have two jrs from the same dept. and one has alotta issues with the way things are run and the other doesnt seem to have a problem with it.

[Michael13]

Its kinda odd that we have two jrs from the same dept. and one has alotta issues with the way things are run and the other doesnt seem to have a problem with it.


Very strange...I wondered that myself...Makes us wonder whats going on over there...:confused:

[smoke286]

Hmmmm....judging by what I've seen in this thread....it could be a possibility that the members have no problem with jrs as a whole, but maybe on an individual basis....attitude...

I do, I don't believe in having these kids at a fire scene

[Buckster]

I do, I don't believe in having these kids at a fire scene
Yeah I agree there myself.....I meant the members of the dept. that these specific Jrs are from

[smoke286]

OK I understand what your saying now

[flameout]

I know im very new at this, and this is gonna be off topic, but, im a grade 11 student who really wants to become a firefighter. Now my counsellors have told me that becoming a firefighter is really hard, and that there are no jobs available, is this true, because alot of people i talk to say that there are not enough firefighters here in BC, thanks.

[dentedhead]

I know im very new at this, and this is gonna be off topic, but, im a grade 11 student who really wants to become a firefighter. Now my counsellors have told me that becoming a firefighter is really hard, and that there are no jobs available, is this true, because alot of people i talk to say that there are not enough firefighters here in BC, thanks.

There are jobs,they just dont come up everyday.It is very hard to get hired but not impossible, if you work hard enough you will get on.Have a look through the hiring thread.

Those ppl are correct there arent enough FF, not just in BC but all of Canada.

Dentedhead