Winnipeg Pushes Merger Of Essential Services

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG - The city will go to the Manitoba Labour Board to ensure a merger of its firefighters and paramedics if the thorny amalgamation effort doesn't become easier, an emergency service official says. But union officials say any move to arbitrate the merger will put a huge cost on taxpayers. Robin Alford of the Winnipeg Fire-Paramedic Service said that the provincial board will likely be asked to determine if and how the long-attempted amalgamation will proceed. "If it comes to that, yes we'll go there," Alford said yesterday, adding the first step toward that could come when contract talks begin with emergency responders later this year.

Source: Winnipeg Sun (http://www.firehall.com/refer.php?url=http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/WinnipegSun/News/2004/03/18/386068.html&linkid=477&parent=news(headlines)&)

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - Winnipeg firefighters, already accused of inappropriate behaviour with visitors at a fire hall, are now facing allegations of harassment from the city's paramedics. Officials from the Professional Paramedic Association of Winnipeg said on Wednesday their members are harassed and bullied by firefighters. Female paramedics complain about pornography at fire halls, men in various stages of undress and management dismissing their concerns. Union president Len Pleskacz said his members have struggled to co-exist with firefighters since the city began to merge the two groups into one department six years ago. "It's been a problem from day one, and it's not unique to Winnipeg," he says. "Amalgamations have been tried in all types of cities. Some have succeeded, most have failed because of the vastly different cultures." The merger has yet to be completed. United Firefighters president Alex Forrest says the paramedics' complaints come while the fire department is already being criticized and while the merger is in its final stages. "There's no possible way that this merger can go forward. What's happening is that there is animosity out there, because firefighters get paid at a certain level, paramedics get paid less," he says.

Source: winnipeg.cbc.ca (http://www.firehall.com/refer.php?url=http://winnipeg.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=mb_merger20040923&linkid=937&parent=news(headlines)&)

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - The city has issued a tough message to firefighters -- got a problem with our discipline? Get used to it. The Winnipeg Fire-Paramedic Service said yesterday it will no longer tolerate harassment and "frat house" behaviour at fire halls. Spokesman Robin Alford made it clear that taking 10 emergency responders off the job last week was part of the fire-paramedic service's no-nonsense approach that stemmed from a "zero-tolerance" order from the city's human resources office last March. All emergency crews were clearly informed of respectful workplace rules in 2002, he said. "We expect them to follow the same rules that everyone else has to," Alford told The Sun. "What we've done as a result of the memo is start on an extensive training program within the department to make sure all managers are fully aware of the requirements of the policy and their obligations under it."

Source: Winnipeg Sun (http://www.firehall.com/refer.php?url=http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/WinnipegSun/News/2004/09/25/642760.html&linkid=947&parent=news(headlines)&)

[bestcoast]

I suggest people go to Winnipeg's union website to get the other side of the story..... www.uffw.ca Cheers.......

[five_alarm]

We at Firehall.com encourage all members and non-members to offer opposing viewpoints to any story posted on this site. We are striving to bring you all the relevant news that we can find from the media or any other source.

If any person has reservations to post an opinion, viewpoint, or other information they are welcome to send it directly to us at http://www.firehall.com/contact.php and we will do our best to post it appropriately.

There are some excellent articles and letters on the www.uffw.ca web site and we will be posting some of them in our site news in the next few days.

Thank you to our posters that remind us there are always two sides to a story.

[bestcoast]

Thank's false_alarm, that wasn't directed at you personally. Just another side to read through.........Cheers

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - After months of bitter and public squabbling, the unions representing firefighters and paramedics continue to resist efforts by the city to amalgamate the two services. The Winnipeg Fire and Paramedic service says it's still committed to merging the two departments. The next step is working out the labour issues. Currently, the collective agreements prevent the department from permanently assigning a firefighter to an ambulance, or from assigning a paramedic to a fire. Department spokesman Robin Alford says it makes financial sense for members to move back and forth between jobs when there's demand for it. During the past several years, the number of fires has decreased – freeing up firefighters – while medical calls have skyrocketed.

Source: winnipeg.cbc.ca (http://www.firehall.com/refer.php?url=http://winnipeg.cbc.ca/regionalnews/caches/mb_fireparamedic20041105.html&linkid=1074&parent=news(headlines)&)

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - Firefighters are claiming a victory (http://www.uffw.ca/to_the_members.htm#Grievance Win) in their attempt to squash the ongoing amalgamation of the city's fire and paramedic services after an arbitrator ruled three firefighters were unfairly asked to ride in ambulances.

"This is a real nail in the coffin of amalgamation," said firefighters union boss Alex Forrest.

"How is the chief going to get worksharing when he can't order firefighters to ride on paramedic units?"

It's one of several grievances related to the union's unhappiness with the ongoing, seven-year-old merger of the fire and paramedic services. Part of the goal of the merger is to cross-train the two groups in each other's jobs.

On Jan. 6 and Jan. 7 last year, three firefighters were told to ride along on ambulances. The fire department said the ride-alongs were part of training.

Source: uffw.ca (http://www.uffw.ca/Information%20Page%202.htm#grievance win)

[firefighter26]

I don't know, maybe I will catch a lot of flak over this, but if done properly an amalgamation of Fire and EMS doesn't sound like such a bad idea.

HOWEVER, I realize that it doesn't always work everywhere and shouldn't be forced in areas where it is obvious it DOESN'T work. There has to be a willingness between both parties, not imposed on by the local government. That is just common sense (which seems to be lacking these days). It shouldn’t be about “the bottom line” it should be about what system provides the best care to the public. If it is separate or together, who cares, as long as public is getting the service it needs.

[Firefighter1680]

Fire based EMS is great...Im in the fire so to say and that is not what is happening.. Amalgamation started as a way to save money...now its not doing that at all, in fact costing way more and now it is being said that it is saving lives so they are still trying to proceed. There are so many problems with how they are doing it, I could go on forever..I agree that Fire based EMS would work...Its just not happening.......

[cjklassen]

I would have to agree with that amalgamation can be a good thing for cities.

In Winnipeg my opinion is the administration is one of the biggest problems in trying to amalgamate the two services. They have had 7 years to get this done but have not even come close to dealing with the real labour issues between the two unions which is the biggest hurdle of an amalgamation.

You would think our chief would have learned from the Edmonton experience as well (he was one of there chiefs when their amalgamation failed but managed to get a job in Hamilton before he was canned by City Council).

I've read the report on what happened in Edmonton and he is using the same game plan and getting the same results.

He now is just trying to break the union by changing things without negotiating the changes which results in the union having to grieve it.

Is there anyone from Edmonton with some insite about their amalgamation attempt.

Just Venting

[K9kazoo]

Paramedics, firefighters believe service poorly run: survey

Thu Aug 18 2005

By Patti Edgar Free Press

NEARLY half of city staff say their department is poorly run, with four out of five in the troubled Winnipeg Fire Paramedic Service worried about how the emergency service is managed.

The city's first survey of employee satisfaction -- a $100,000 undertaking -- paints a picture of extremely low morale among firefighters and paramedics.

In the Winnipeg Fire Paramedic Service, 79 per cent of employees say the emergency service is not well run or effectively managed. That number climbs as high as 83 per cent among just firefighters and paramedics.

The hard feelings among firefighters and paramedics come after some members feuded openly and bitterly about an amalgamation of the two services.

"Those figures are intolerable, we just can't shut our eyes to them," said West End Coun. Harvey Smith.

"This becomes a safety question." The survey of 4,271 employees, or 45 per cent of the city's workforce, was taken last November and December by the Hay Group.

The results for the Winnipeg Fire Paramedic Service were sent to fire halls last week.

Across all city departments, 44 per cent of workers reported that their department wasn't well run. But when it came to rating their department on maintaining a consistently high level of service, 61 per cent gave a good review, a percentage almost on par with other public-sector workplaces.

"The overall city results were good," said Annitta Stenning, the city's top administrator. "There's areas where we have spikes and there's areas where there are challenges."

Department managers are now working on strategies to deal with any problems raised by the survey.

But among city staff, there's little expectation that the $100,00 survey will lead to improvements. Only 19 per cent of city workers thought their bosses would act on the survey results.

The firefighters' union places the blame for low morale in the Winnipeg Fire Paramedic Service on an eight-year-old effort by city hall to amalgamate the force with paramedics, which has strained relations with administrators and inside the fire halls.

The most controversial change called for under the merger would be training as many as half of firefighters and paramedics to do each other's jobs.

"This all stems to one thing. The amalgamation has failed and everyone realizes this except the chief," said Alex Forrest, president of the United Fire Fighters of Winnipeg.

Travis Hildebrand, president of Professional Paramedic Association of Winnipeg, said support for amalgamation is slipping, but there are more immediate problems for his members.

"This shows the faith the paramedics have in the current administration," he said of the survey numbers.

"I would say morale is very low and a lot of it is due to daily operations. We feel we are short-staffed and we are running out of ambulances up to three times a week." The survey shows paramedics reaching what Hildebrand calls a crisis level:

* Only 32 per cent said the amount of work expected of them was reasonable and only 13 per cent thought there was enough staff to do the job;

* Only 20 per cent said the city was committed to creating a safe and healthy work environment;

* Only 7 per cent reported that they usually feel recognized for their contributions when things go well in their jobs.

Winnipeg Fire Paramedic Service chief Wes Shoemaker wasn't available for comment.

Coun. Gord Steeves, chairman of the committee that oversees the department, said he thought the city was making headway in morale in the Winnipeg Fire Paramedic Service through talks with the unions and administrators.

"We seem to have a real rift that has developed between the firefighters, the paramedics and the administration. I don't know who is to blame because there is such history," he said.

"I am trying to create a strategy to see if any fences could be mended in the personal relationships."

Overall, the City of Winnipeg's scores were in line with job satisfaction surveys at other public-sector workplaces, which usually rate lower than private organizations, according to a report prepared for the city by Hay Group. As is the case in other public-sector organizations, "there is concern with stress levels, performance management, supervision, workload distribution and work contribution," reads the report.

Steeves said belt-tightening at city hall to keep taxes from rising is the source of tension among city employees.

"Over the last eight years, we've been asking our staff to do more with less resources," he said.

"If you aren't able to service your clientele properly, you are going to get declines in job satisfaction."

How workers feel about their departments

Results of a survey of city workers taken last November and December:

* Percentage who agree their department is effectively managed and well-run:

Across city departments 39
Among firefighters 8
Among paramedics 8

* Percentage who agree their department provides a consistent, high level of service:

Across city departments 61
Among firefighters 63
Among paramedics 30

* Percentage who agree their department treats them with respect as an individual:

Across city departments 50
Among firefighters 25
Among paramedics 29

* Percentage who agree there are enough staff to do the work in their area:

Across city departments 34
Among firefighters 50
Among paramedics 13


For the complete WFPS results email me offline... secretary@ppaw.ca

[five_alarm]

AN attempt by the city to block the sale of Winnipeg fire department caps and other paraphernalia has caused a run on the merchandise, the head of the firefighters' union said yesterday.

And a Winnipeg city councillor was leading the sales charge.

"I bought 12 (baseball caps) and I might buy more," Coun. Harry Lazarenko said. "I don't know why the administration is jumping on this -- they should have come to us first."

City solicitor Ursula Goeres wrote United Firefighters of Winnipeg president Alex Forrest on July 11, instructing him to "immediately cease the sale and distribution" of baseball caps, T-shirts, tuques, or other items bearing the words "Winnipeg Fire Department" or the initials "WFD."

Source: uffw.ca (http://www.uffw.ca/Information%20Page%202.htm#Firefighter duds)

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - Winnipeg's paramedic union has decided to oppose the city's ongoing merger of its firefighters and ambulance divisions, putting the thorny amalgamation on more shaky ground.

The Professional Paramedics Association of Winnipeg says in a memo to its nearly 200 members that crucial merger processes have stalled or fallen apart, while the entire eight-year-old project has cost taxpayers money, worsened care and "embittered its employees against the administration."

The decision means the paramedics are officially opposed to the merger for the first time after a firefighters union has fought the amalgamation for years, an ambulance union spokesman said.

Source: uffw.ca (http://www.uffw.ca/to_the_members.htm#Medics Union)

[Mr_Smokie]

WINNIPEG, MB - Winnipeg's paramedic union has decided to oppose the city's ongoing merger of its firefighters and ambulance divisions, putting the thorny amalgamation on more shaky ground.

The Professional Paramedics Association of Winnipeg says in a memo to its nearly 200 members that crucial merger processes have stalled or fallen apart, while the entire eight-year-old project has cost taxpayers money, worsened care and "embittered its employees against the administration."

The decision means the paramedics are officially opposed to the merger for the first time after a firefighters union has fought the amalgamation for years, an ambulance union spokesman said.

Source: uffw.ca (http://www.uffw.ca/to_the_members.htm#Medics Union)


You forgot this part,

"The memo says a lack of progress on the merger and a "continued toxic work environment our members have to endure" with fire crews played a part in the decision."

Has anyone ever considered that one of the problems may also be the "Spoiled Brat Syndrome"?

Helping the guys clean the toilets is not considered a toxic work environment. While it has always been a firefighters' duty to maintain the hall, ambulance drivers had lived the life of a relative. The City maintained their facilities while we cut grass and pushed snow. They answered to no one while we had officers and rules. They went to restaurants when at times we had our food shopping privilages suspended. The list goes on.

Well that was then and this is now. You're now in a fire hall not a hotel.

It's unfortunate that the ambulance drivers union has to portray us as the bad guys in this merger because some oppose the semi-military structure of the fire department or because we make more money or because in their opinion they're busier. Those are issues that only management can resolve. We're just city employees. Maybe they don't realize it, but so are they.

Fabricating stories that bring dishonor to our valued profession will not improve their supposed toxic work environment. From the lies about #4 station to yesterdays news, they have been relentless in their attempt to publicly humiliate us. So much for respectful workplace.

I applaud our memebership for remaining professional during these trying times, proudly performing the job that we were hired to do and not lowering ourselves to this type of childlike behaviour. The safety of the citizens of Winnipeg will always be our main priority. We're firefighters. That's what we do.

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - After eight years of trying to make a merger with firefighters work, the union representing Winnipeg paramedics says it's throwing in the towel. The Professional Paramedics Association of Winnipeg says it still supports the idea of a merger, but can no longer support the merger of its department with Winnipeg firefighters, which began in 1998.

"We haven't seen any changes that proved to be beneficial for patient care," says union official Tommy Walsh.

"We haven't seen this merger benefit the paramedics, with respect to decreased workloads, the ability to function at the most optimum rate. We still have paramedics coming in to work, working upwards of eight, nine hours without a lunch break."

Source: cbc.ca (http://www.cbc.ca/manitoba/story/mb_fire-paramedic-20060111.html?ref=rss)

[North_of_60]

Hey Mr. Smokie...

When was the last time you were called a FIRE TRUCK DRIVER...

The term is PARAMEDIC, not Ambulance Driver; just as it is FIREFIGHTER not Fire Truck Driver and POLICE OFFICER not Police Car Driver.

I have worked in EMS, and I currently work in Law Enforcement and Volunteer with the Fire Service, and I take real offence to the term ambulance driver.

I am not saying that the Proffessional Paramedics Association of Winnipeg is right in what they have done; but turning it into a mudslinging war where slader each others proffessionalism is really sad. People are supposed to look up to the Public Safety Professionals in all of our communities. What message are we sending when we can't stand up like adults and say that although we disagree on certain issues, we still respect each other.

When Egos get put away, all three services (Police, Fire and EMS) can work together for the end goal, which is safer communities.

Mutual Respect is what is needed.

Everyone (Firefighters, Paramedics, etc.) Stay Safe out there,

North of 60

PS: I am niether a member of the Proffessional Paramedics Association of Winnipeg or the United Firefighters of Winnipeg.

[Ladymedic]

You forgot this part,



I applaud our memebership for remaining professional during these trying times, proudly performing the job that we were hired to do and not lowering ourselves to this type of childlike behaviour. The safety of the citizens of Winnipeg will always be our main priority. We're firefighters. That's what we do.

Perhaps they have, until now that is.

[Mr_Smokie]

Perhaps they have, until now that is.

Of course you can back up that accusation with facts.

I can tell by your statement that you're not even sure if we put public safety first before the merger. So tell me, what makes you an expert about the operations of our department.

"Perhaps" you shouldn't believe everything you read in the media and educate yourself on the real facts before you feel the need to insult myself, my co-workers, our families, our department and our citizens.

But hey, you're entitled to your opinion. And if it makes you feel better by belittling someone else, go for it.

Have a nice day.

[Mr_Smokie]

I am not saying that the Proffessional Paramedics Association of Winnipeg is right in what they have done; but turning it into a mudslinging war where slader each others proffessionalism is really sad.

So far the mud has only been slung one way. If you've followed the media story for the last few years you might have noticed that the acccusations have always come from the other side.

It's really unfortunate that my wife, kids and parents have to field questions about supposed strippers, drinking and improper behaviour in the firehall and now still, a toxic work environment.

You're right it is sad.

Stay safe.

[Ladymedic]

I was refering to you specifically Mr. Smokie. Your stooping to calling another profession by degrading names shows a marked lack of professionalism.

Ball is in your court............

[Mr_Smokie]

I was refering to you specifically Mr. Smokie. Your stooping to calling another profession by degrading names shows a marked lack of professionalism.

Ball is in your court............

I doubt you were. Your opinion was about my comment putting safety first. You even quoted it.

Yesterday, 10:36 PM
Ladymedic Ladymedic is offline

Location: Ontario
Posts: 204
Send a message via MSN to Ladymedic
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Smokie
You forgot this part,



I applaud our memebership for remaining professional during these trying times, proudly performing the job that we were hired to do and not lowering ourselves to this type of childlike behaviour. The safety of the citizens of Winnipeg will always be our main priority. We're firefighters. That's what we do.

Perhaps they have, until now that is.

As you said, "Perhaps they have, until now that is."

Since when did "they" mean the same as "you".

You took the opportunity to insult my co-workers based only on what you heard or read. Now you say the comment was directed just at me. Well your comment about my integrity shows that you're less of a professional than myself.

Three of my co-workers were almost terminated because of the false accusations of those so called professionals. They were publicly humilitated, stripped of their rank and embarrassed in front of their family, friends and community. You want degrading, walk a mile in their shoes. Now it starts again.

It's too bad you didn't show this kind of emotion while their lives were being ruined.

Game, set and match.

Stay safe and have a nice day.

[Ladymedic]

Read again the first line of my quote, how you applaud your coworkers for their professionalism. My mistake for not editing out the last line, but I still stand by my comment. Your degrading comments were definately unprofessional.

Still in the game.

[Mr_Smokie]

Read again the first line of my quote, how you applaud your coworkers for their professionalism. My mistake for not editing out the last line, but I still stand by my comment. Your degrading comments were definately unprofessional.

Still in the game.

Parsing or editing a post to change it's meaning gets you an automatic game ejection. I still win. My comment to you was directed at what you posted and your uneducated opinion. You had the opportunity to edit it and didn't. Now you want to change the meaning of your post. Too late.

As you meant,

You don't necessarily believe the firefighters put public safety first. Now or then.

Your lack of comment on the real facts also tells me you support the medics and their smear campaign. That alone makes me suspect of what your real intentions are. Don't let your ego get in the way of expressing your true feelings toward the fire service.

Game over.

[frfghtr]

Fire based EMS is great...Im in the fire so to say and that is not what is happening.. Amalgamation started as a way to save money...now its not doing that at all, in fact costing way more and now it is being said that it is saving lives so they are still trying to proceed. There are so many problems with how they are doing it, I could go on forever..I agree that Fire based EMS would work...Its just not happening.......

Yes but, there are some positives regarding this merger.

Rumor has it, that the dry cleaning business in Winnipeg is doing quite well. Just think of all the new white shirts that need washing and pressing.

If they really wanted to save money, we could wash their stuff with our turnout gear in the station washing machines. I'd even promise to use Fleecy. I hear spineboards work quite well as ironing boards, too.

[iamvff]

Yes but, there are some positives regarding this merger.

Rumor has it, that the dry cleaning business in Winnipeg is doing quite well. Just think of all the new white shirts that need washing and pressing.

If they really wanted to save money, we could wash their stuff with our turnout gear in the station washing machines. I'd even promise to use Fleecy. I hear spineboards work quite well as ironing boards, too.
YOUR NOTHING BUT A $H!T DISTURBER.....Welcome to the firehall...you'll fit in quite well!! :D

iamvff ;)

[frfghtr]

YOUR NOTHING BUT A $H!T DISTURBER.....Welcome to the firehall...you'll fit in quite well!! :D

iamvff ;)

Actually, I'm a white shirt disturber. Care for a little extra starch with that order?

Thanks for the welcome. Nice place you have here. I was looking for a 44 regular, but this do for now.

[Ladymedic]

Sorry Mr Smokie, but you see only what you want to see. I still stand behind my post. Your comments were unprofessional.

[iamvff]

Actually, I'm a white shirt disturber. Care for a little extra starch with that order?

Thanks for the welcome. Nice place you have here. I was looking for a 44 regular, but this do for now.
Careful now...you never know which of us may be a White Shirt!

iamvff :D ;)

[frfghtr]

Careful now...you never know which of us may be a White Shirt!

iamvff :D ;)

Do you honestly think they would converse with us lowly peons?

With all the gold bars on their shoulders they're as close to royality as you can get.

I believe that if we even look in their direction we would be struck down by lightning.

Now down on your knees and repeat after me, "We're not worthy, we're not worthy."

[Firefighter1680]

lol.. nicley put...

[tmehmel]

uh oh, did someone say professional???

RAT warning!!!

Tom

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - It's a feud that's been festering between city hall and Winnipeg's firefighters for years. For its part, the city wants to amalgamate the fire department and the ambulance service, hoping to save money and improve service. On the other side, the firefighters are digging in their heels, angry over a plan they claim is a waste of money and a misuse of personnel.

But Alex Forrest, head of the United Fire Fighters of Winnipeg (http://www.firehall.com/index2.php?item=6724), vows he will win the battle before his latest two-year term expires. "What it's cost is not only bad morale for firefighters, I would suggest it's been well over $350,000 to $400,000 in consultants' reports," Forrest said recently after his union presidency was extended another two years. 'Has to be an end game'

Source: winnipegsun.com (http://winnipegsun.com/News/Winnipeg/2006/03/06/1474775-sun.html)

[Firefighter1680]

Be interesting to see what happens...

[K9kazoo]

Keeping my fingers crossed :)

[Firefighter1680]

LOL.. for?????

[bestcoast]

WINNIPEG, MB - It's a feud that's been festering between city hall and Winnipeg's firefighters for years. For its part, the city wants to amalgamate the fire department and the ambulance service, hoping to save money and improve service. On the other side, the firefighters are digging in their heels, angry over a plan they claim is a waste of money and a misuse of personnel.

But Alex Forrest, head of the United Fire Fighters of Winnipeg (http://www.firehall.com/index2.php?item=6724), vows he will win the battle before his latest two-year term expires. "What it's cost is not only bad morale for firefighters, I would suggest it's been well over $350,000 to $400,000 in consultants' reports," Forrest said recently after his union presidency was extended another two years. 'Has to be an end game'

Source: winnipegsun.com (http://winnipegsun.com/News/Winnipeg/2006/03/06/1474775-sun.html)
I hope we stay away from that in Vancouver. If it ain't broke don't fix it I say........BC.....

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - Committed to seeing the successful integration of Fire and Paramedic service in Winnipeg, Mayor Katz will join Fire Paramedic Chief Wes Shoemaker and United Fire Fighters of Winnipeg (UFFW) president Alex Forrest on a frontline tour of three integrated fire paramedic services in the Western United States this Thursday, Friday and Saturday.

The three departments chosen by Winnipeg fire/paramedic officials – Los Angeles, San Diego and Tucson - are widely considered to be models of successful integration between fire and paramedic services.

Winnipeg City Council endorsed a policy looking to merge the fire and paramedic services over seven years ago. The policy was adopted to provide better service and create efficiencies. As separate departments, the two services often deploy separately, sending multiple vehicles on different communication systems to the same emergency.

Source: municipalsuppliers.com (http://www.municipalsuppliers.com/news_detail.asp?ID=47906)

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - Members of Winnipeg's paramedics union say they will no longer support or assist with amalgamation of their department with the city's fire department. The contentious merger of the departments has been in the works since 1998, but has been riddled with disputes and disagreements between the two unions.

This week, Winnipeg's mayor, the fire-paramedic chief and the president of the United Fire Fighters of Winnipeg are visiting Los Angeles, San Diego and Tucson to research their successful experiences with departmental amalgamation. Travis Hildebrand, president of the Professional Paramedics Association of Winnipeg, says he found out about the trip through a press release. He characterized their omission as a slap in the face.

Source: cbc.ca (http://www.cbc.ca/manitoba/story/mb_paramedics-20060316.html)

[irsqyu]

WINNIPEG, MB - Members of Winnipeg's paramedics union say they will no longer support or assist with amalgamation of their department with the city's fire department. The contentious merger of the departments has been in the works since 1998, but has been riddled with disputes and disagreements between the two unions.

This week, Winnipeg's mayor, the fire-paramedic chief and the president of the United Fire Fighters of Winnipeg are visiting Los Angeles, San Diego and Tucson to research their successful experiences with departmental amalgamation. Travis Hildebrand, president of the Professional Paramedics Association of Winnipeg, says he found out about the trip through a press release. He characterized their omission as a slap in the face.

Source: cbc.ca (http://www.cbc.ca/manitoba/story/mb_paramedics-20060316.html)
Sounds like a nice vacation, even if they don't accomplish anything. Somebodys not thinking by leaving out representation from the Paramedics union, this will only cause further tension. :rolleyes:

[bestcoast]

WINNIPEG, MB - Members of Winnipeg's paramedics union say they will no longer support or assist with amalgamation of their department with the city's fire department. The contentious merger of the departments has been in the works since 1998, but has been riddled with disputes and disagreements between the two unions.

This week, Winnipeg's mayor, the fire-paramedic chief and the president of the United Fire Fighters of Winnipeg are visiting Los Angeles, San Diego and Tucson to research their successful experiences with departmental amalgamation. Travis Hildebrand, president of the Professional Paramedics Association of Winnipeg, says he found out about the trip through a press release. He characterized their omission as a slap in the face.

Source: cbc.ca (http://www.cbc.ca/manitoba/story/mb_paramedics-20060316.html)
Talk about throwing a little gasoline on the fire!!...:rolleyes:...BC......

[Firefighter1680]

We will see what Happens I guess... The Paramedics union cant really say this is dead.. IF it was that easy Local 867 would have said that years ago!! The union is working towards fire based ems, and this trip was to look at other departments in the IAFF that have successfully accomplished this.

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - Winnipeg's move to mix its firefighters with paramedics is doomed to fail while wasting tax dollars if Mayor Sam Katz tries to adopt a system used in several U.S. cities, says the head of Edmonton's paramedics union.

Randy Littlechild said systems used in Los Angeles, San Diego and Tucson, Ariz. -- cities whose 911 systems were checked out by Katz this week -- make poor use of paramedics by posting them on fire pumpers. Such a system won't work in Winnipeg, Edmonton or other cities without the "extra manpower" the larger centres enjoy, he said.

"On a Friday or Saturday night, the entire fire service would be tied up because all the paramedics are going to the hospital," Littlechild, head of Edmonton's paramedics union, told the Sun yesterday. "Could you imagine if there were 20 some-odd calls going on at the same time with paramedics going to a hospital? All 20 fire trucks would have to go to the hospital to pick them up."

Source: winnipegsun.com (http://winnipegsun.com/News/Winnipeg/2006/03/18/1493779-sun.html)

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - On March 16th, 17th, and 18th I did a fact-finding tour of Los Angeles, San Diego and Tucson Fire Departments with Mayor Sam Katz and Chief Wes Shoemaker. In the fall of 2005 the Executive of Local 867 suggested to Mayor Katz that he join me on such a tour, and we suggested it for several reasons.

We have many problems in our Fire Department today that are due to the failed amalgamation and this trip served to educate Mayor Katz on exactly how bad the problems are. We went to the Los Angeles, San Diego and Tucson departments with open minds, intent on trying to find a resolve to our issues. These FIRE DEPARTMENTS showed Mayor Katz what made a successful department, things such as industry standards for firefighting and EMS, the importance of trust and co-operation between labour and management, the need for strong leadership and a strong respect for the expertise, tradition, history and dangers of our profession.

Source: uffw.ca (http://www.uffw.ca/Presidents%20Reports.htm#Special Report on Tour)

[frfghtr]

"On a Friday or Saturday night, the entire fire service would be tied up because all the paramedics are going to the hospital," Littlechild, head of Edmonton's paramedics union, told the Sun yesterday. "Could you imagine if there were 20 some-odd calls going on at the same time with paramedics going to a hospital? All 20 fire trucks would have to go to the hospital to pick them up."

Source: winnipegsun.com (http://winnipegsun.com/News/Winnipeg/2006/03/18/1493779-sun.html)

Say it ain't so.

So let me get this straight, if the pm's go to a hospital, we'd only be available for fires, hazmat, co or gas calls, auto-ex, trench and high angle rescue, water rescue, major stand-bys, natural disaters, car seat, vacant home and business inspections, public ed, tours, drill, hall, equipment and truck maintanence and medicals calls ranging from births to 99s.

That's totally unacceptable. If I can't have it all, I don't want it at all.

Well Mr. Littlechild, I'm imagining something but I doubt it's the same picture you see.

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, BC - Members of Winnipeg's paramedic union said their meeting with Mayor Sam Katz was progressive, and opened the lines of communication. Earlier this month the paramedic union pulled out of discussions on amalgating fire and paramedic services.

Tommy Walsh, spokesperson for the Professional Paramedic Association of Winnipeg, was hopeful of a resolution even though nothing was decided in the hour-long meeting.

"I don't think it's going to be anything that comes out of it overnight," said Walsh. "It's going to take a lot more discussion. Our stance on this issue has not changed. In saying that, the mayor has said he is open-minded to further discussion and encourages that. We'll work on building that relationship and see what's to come."

Source: cbc.ca (http://www.cbc.ca/manitoba/story/win-paramedic-service-20060324.html?ref=rss)

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - Winnipeg's firefighters and paramedics should consider forming a single union as talks proceed on merging the two workforces, says Winnipeg Mayor Sam Katz.

Katz recently visited three U.S. cities where fire and paramedic services have merged. He says that experience, along with other research, has proved to him that one union for both groups is the most effective way to achieve integration.

"You can't get to where you want to go under existing circumstances," he said. "If we were able to get to the point where we have a single bargaining unit that represented the concerns of both firefighters and paramedics, life would be much better." Katz says a single collective agreement should have been set up close to a decade ago, when the move toward amalgamation began.

Source: cbc.ca (http://www.cbc.ca/manitoba/story/mb_union-merger-20060327.html?ref=rss)

[NBPFD231]

my only thought is why are they trying to amalgamate the two....they are two different jobs done by different people...i may be wrong but what is so much better about the amalgamation of the two unions? this is one step towards making the jobs into the firemedics that some departments have tried to set up in the past

[Firefighter1680]

IF we are not in teh same union they cannot amalgamate. Paramedics cannot ride fire apparatus and vs. versa because of contractual agreements. If they had joined the unions at the beginning, would not have a problem..

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - The president of the United Fire Fighters of Winnipeg says a proposed merger of the unions representing the city's firefighters and paramedics simply won't work. Winnipeg Mayor Sam Katz said earlier this week that the city's firefighters and paramedics should consider forming a single union as talks proceed on merging the two workforces.

Currently, five different unions represent the two workforces. Katz believes amalgamation of the unions would help smooth the contentious, almost decade-old plan to merge the two departments. The merger has been riddled with disputes and disagreements between the unions.

However, firefighters' union president Alex Forrest says there's been too much bad blood between the two groups for a merger to work. "You can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again," he told CBC News Monday.

Source: cbc.ca (http://www.cbc.ca/manitoba/story/mb_fire-merger-20060327.html)

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - Winnipeg's emergency responders would become a faster, better-managed and more well-oiled machine under a proposal from Tory leadership candidate Ron Schuler. That's the word from the city's firefighters union, which is applauding Schuler's pitch to put all Manitoba emergency medical services (EMS) under the provincial government's control.

"It's time to go with a provincial system where we don't have 11 regions," Schuler, MLA for Springfield, told the Sun yesterday. "Then you'll have a provincial standard instead of 11 different regions deciding what the standard is."

Schuler says that "when" he becomes premier within the next couple of years following a Conservative party leadership vote next month, he wants the province's 11 regional health authorities to manage all EMS.

Source: winnipegsun.com (http://winnipegsun.com/News/Winnipeg/2006/03/28/1508718-sun.html)

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - Winnipeg firefighters have begun treating accident and crime victims with drugs traditionally handled only by paramedics -- a change emergency responders say will endanger patients.

"We're the first department in Canada to have firefighters doing this. It's a huge step forward, but they're doing it in a desperate way," Alex Forrest, head of the city's firefighters union, said yesterday. "And this is putting unbelievable pressure on the new firefighters." Fire crews began drug training with paramedics last weekend.

Tommy Walsh, spokesman for a union representing ambulance crews, said the policy wrongly aims to have all new firefighter-paramedic first responder recruits saddled with the tricky task of applying nitro spray, nitro patches, ventolin ampules, ASA and epinephrine to relieve patients of pain or discomfort en route to hospital.

Source: winnipegsun.com (http://winnipegsun.com/News/Winnipeg/2006/04/04/1518838-sun.html)

[sunfire67]

I would just like to add a small point from the Winnepeg Sun article, Winnepeg fireifghters were not the first fire department in Canada to administer these drugs that I am aware of. The firefighters at Pearson International Aiport in Toronto have been administering the symptom relief drugs since June 2004.

This is not to knock Winnepeg Fire Department, this is great and I wish more fire departments would certify their firefighters in this, it is a great bonus in regards to patient care.

Good job Winnpeg Fire Department!!!

The Winnepeg Sun should maybe have stated the article that they were the first firefighters in Manitoba in administer the drugs.

[dentedhead]

Not quite sure why only accident and crime victims.Those meds are typically used in medical only and not trauma.

Yes I know stress brings on anginal episodes,and possibly asthmatic events,before some of our medics get their knicks in a knot.

Other than epi and in the odd case nitro these drugs are basically FF proof and not hard to give.I wish we had them on a couple of occaisions.

I dont know why the medics are putting up such a fuss.Bottom line is if my kid is having an aniphylactic episode or my wife is in a severe asthmatic event I dont care who is giving the meds. I have faith they have been trained to give them and understand how what they give them works.

Besides Im betting, the what was it 11? Who are trained are all certified medics anyhow.

Dentedhead

[russ102ca]

My be medically trained firefighters. Not the 8hrs and your trained. Here is the problem.
F.F. tells patient take more nitro even if the patient has already taken their 3 sprays, why because that’s what the medics are going to do. Patient takes nitro is now dizzy, lightheaded and very diaphoretic, blood pressure is in their boots. Problem #2 patient thinks they are having allergic reaction to meds, he has SOB, chest discomfort, pale diaphoresis, dizzy lightheaded, fire on scene helps patient inject himself with his EPI PEN, medics are now on scene less then 1 minute behind fire, assess patient only to find that the patient is having a big M.I. Both cases happened in the last 2-3 weeks not good care for the patient. The research needs to be done first which may or may not have been done with regards to Winnipeg. The base hospitals have been studying this for years and some of the data is quit interesting. One area fire department wanted their firefighters that are former paramedics to give symptom relief meds. When the data was shown, it showed over a 2-year period only 3 patients out of I think it was about 25000 fire med calls, might benefit the patient. What it also showed was that ambulance was on scene average of about 2 minutes behind fire. A proper assessment takes more than 2 min. Money would be better spent training firefighters with slightly better patient assessment skills, so that pertinent info can better be passed along to the medics. Better yet put more ambulances on the road.

Sorry for the long winded post,
Russ102ca

[yyz_arff]

I remember working as a PCP in SW ontario when the local fire chief wanted to pull the ALS medics off of the ambulances and put them on fire trucks. He co-ordinated with a local patient transfer service stating to the press that he can deliver EMS in a cheaper cost-effective manner. Im sure most medics feel the same way I did. I thought, actuall I was positive I was going to lose my job. When this was going on I became a prick to the FF. Oe day I was invited for a ride along with the FD and they all said the same thing "we just want to help you guys, we dont want your job." I always tell medics be good to the firefighters, they'll be 4X good back to you. Think of them as the brawns and you as the brains. Trust me your back pain will go away.

[BCFFFV]

I remember working as a PCP in SW ontario when the local fire chief wanted to pull the ALS medics off of the ambulances and put them on fire trucks. He co-ordinated with a local patient transfer service stating to the press that he can deliver EMS in a cheaper cost-effective manner. Im sure most medics feel the same way I did. I thought, actuall I was positive I was going to lose my job. When this was going on I became a prick to the FF. Oe day I was invited for a ride along with the FD and they all said the same thing "we just want to help you guys, we dont want your job." I always tell medics be good to the firefighters, they'll be 4X good back to you. Think of them as the brawns and you as the brains. Trust me your back pain will go away.


Thanks!!!!!...........hmmmm....I think.

[dentedhead]

My be medically trained firefighters. Not the 8hrs and your trained. Here is the problem.
F.F. tells patient take more nitro even if the patient has already taken their 3 sprays, why because that’s what the medics are going to do. Patient takes nitro is now dizzy, lightheaded and very diaphoretic, blood pressure is in their boots. Problem #2 patient thinks they are having allergic reaction to meds, he has SOB, chest discomfort, pale diaphoresis, dizzy lightheaded, fire on scene helps patient inject himself with his EPI PEN, medics are now on scene less then 1 minute behind fire, assess patient only to find that the patient is having a big M.I. Both cases happened in the last 2-3 weeks not good care for the patient. The research needs to be done first which may or may not have been done with regards to Winnipeg. The base hospitals have been studying this for years and some of the data is quit interesting. One area fire department wanted their firefighters that are former paramedics to give symptom relief meds. When the data was shown, it showed over a 2-year period only 3 patients out of I think it was about 25000 fire med calls, might benefit the patient. What it also showed was that ambulance was on scene average of about 2 minutes behind fire. A proper assessment takes more than 2 min. Money would be better spent training firefighters with slightly better patient assessment skills, so that pertinent info can better be passed along to the medics. Better yet put more ambulances on the road.

Sorry for the long winded post,
Russ102ca


If the FFs told the pt to take more nitro or epi thats wrong.I am talking about proper administration of meds not just thinking that you are helping.

As stated its rare but I can think of at least 2 occasions in the last month where nitro for CHF would have been handy or some ventolin for an asthmatic kiddie due to pronlonged EMS response.

With regards to your last statement.First the paramedics have to listen to what the FF has to say.If I ever treated or talked to a FF the way I have been treated by some medics since switching over I would hope that I would have been invited over to the station for a blanket show.

I have had medics with less miles driving an ambulance forward than I have backing one up up talk to me like I am some kind of simpleton.

FYI the first responder course is being pushed by the OFC in a big way.

Dentedhead

[irsqyu]

If the FFs told the pt to take more nitro or epi thats wrong.I am talking about proper administration of meds not just thinking that you are helping.

As stated its rare but I can think of at least 2 occasions in the last month where nitro for CHF would have been handy or some ventolin for an asthmatic kiddie due to pronlonged EMS response.

With regards to your last statement.First the paramedics have to listen to what the FF has to say.If I ever treated or talked to a FF the way I have been treated by some medics since switching over I would hope that I would have been invited over to the station for a blanket show.

I have had medics with less miles driving an ambulance forward than I have backing one up up talk to me like I am some kind of simpleton.


FYI the first responder course is being pushed by the OFC in a big way.

Dentedhead


A great deal of our calls are tiered medical (approx 50%), most medics listen to what we have to say, but like DH said there are a number who don't, they just walk by and start writing on their gloves. On their arrival we usually have a full set of vitals including ECG strip, SPO2, BP, Pulse, plus usually the personal information, medical history, all of the meds gathered plus the medical card ready to go.
We also use the OFC First responder Guidelines, plus defibrillator protocols.

[yyz_arff]

A great deal of our calls are tiered medical (approx 50%), most medics listen to what we have to say, but like DH said there are a number who don't, they just walk by and start writing on their gloves. On their arrival we usually have a full set of vitals including ECG strip, SPO2, BP, Pulse, plus usually the personal information, medical history, all of the meds gathered plus the medical card ready to go.
We also use the OFC First responder Guidelines, plus defibrillator protocols.


what cardiac monitor does your department use?

[irsqyu]

what cardiac monitor does your department use?

Zoll Semi Automatic, with three lead ECG and SPO2, it is compatible with Halton EMS manual units

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - The Professional Paramedic Association of Winnipeg has confirmed that in a desperate attempt to push forward the failed amalgamation, Chief Wes Shoemaker attended a meeting yesterday that briefed officials inferring that the Unions have accepted amalgamation and that everything was going fine. “This is just adding fuel to the fire of distrust” said Travis Hildebrand, President.

“Chief Shoemaker has lost all the paramedics confidence by:

• Going on a fact finding trip without our group and trying to hide it.
• Asking for a meeting with paramedics via e mail then refusing to even reply to the paramedic response.
• Throwing labour relations out the window by ignoring our bargaining group’s collective agreement.
• Despite the Budget approval, Chief Shoemaker is “Still trying to find “strategies” to place a needed additional ambulance online.”

Source: emsnetwork.org (http://www.emsnetwork.org/artman/publish/article_21385.shtml)

[frfghtr]

This comment was in the Winnipeg Sun 'Letters to Editor' on April 9/06

Meds logical next step

The April 4 article by Ross Romaniuk on the Winnipeg firefighters giving out medications, while very sensational, contains many inaccuracies and innuendo. Let us review the real facts.

The Fire and Emergency Services of the Greater Toronto Airports Authority has been delivering symptom relief since 2003.

Paramedics union spokesman Tommy Walsh’s contention that the provision of symptom relief requires extensive medical knowledge and experience is simply wrong. Symptom relief medications are those medications that thousands of people on a daily basis give themselves — nitroglycerin, ventolin, aspirin, glucose, epinephrine. Firefighters delivering symptom relief are giving these same medications to people who are unable to temporarily do it themselves. These are still delegated medical acts, so do you think a physician would put his medical licence on the line if it was not safe and effective?

Dr. Rob Grierson is correct in stating that this is the natural progression of pre-hospital emergency care. Firefighters have progressed from administering basic first-aid to using defibrillators and oxygen. Their “toolbox” now contains blood pressure cuffs and oxygen monitors. Each time the same sensationalist argument was put forward that firefighters are endangering patients’ lives and people would be killed!

Firefighters union spokesman Alex Forrest’s contention that this is a huge step forward and puts unbelievable pressure on new firefighters is misleading. Symptom relief is an eight-hour course, much less than the time spent learning hydraulics, hose lays and pump operations as a new firefighter.

The fire service has progressed and adapted to the new realities of their calls for service with new and better equipment and training. Symptom relief is the next progression. The bottom line still is what is best for the people who call us when they are in need.

Shame on Mr. Walsh and Mr. Forrest who dare put their own political agenda and entrenched positions ahead of good patient care. Check your egos and empires at the door and concentrate on the great service you provide.

M.R. (Mike) Figliola

Fire Chief

Fire & Emergency Services

Toronto Pearson International Airport


Shame on Mr. Figliola for trying to compare the role of his department to that of the Winnipeg Fire Paramedic Service. The last time I looked, Winnipeg was a bit bigger than the Toronto Pearson International Airport. I could be mistaken but I doubt that over 700,000 people work, live or commute in the Pearson Airport on a daily basis. And because of that, the concerns of Mr. Forrest and Mr. Walsh are vastly different than of Mr. Figliola. And shame of him for even suggesting that they put their own agenda before good patient care.

So tell me again Mr. Figliola, who really has the bigger ego?

[Firefighter1680]

THings are heaten up in here!!!

[sunfire67]

Nope Pearson doesn't have 700,000 people at the airport. Pearson has 30 million passengers go through the airport in a year, aswell the bussiest day of the year has over 700,000 passengers. This dosen't include all the people that work at the airport as well. Just a little info for those who are not familiar with Pearson Airport.

[mutts252]

Nope Pearson doesn't have 700,000 people at the airport. Pearson has 30 million passengers go through the airport in a year, aswell the bussiest day of the year has over 700,000 passengers. This dosen't include all the people that work at the airport as well. Just a little info for those who are not familiar with Pearson Airport.

i was just thinking that...

though they may not be residents, they sure as hell have a LOT of people pass through.

[frfghtr]

Nope Pearson doesn't have 700,000 people at the airport. Pearson has 30 million passengers go through the airport in a year, aswell the bussiest day of the year has over 700,000 passengers. This dosen't include all the people that work at the airport as well. Just a little info for those who are not familiar with Pearson Airport.

Well for those that not famaliar with Winnipeg, if you want split hairs, the Winnipeg Fire Paramedic Service, services the needs of over 255 million people on an annual basis and that does not even include those that travel thru it by air or land.

So tell me, how many medical, fire, mva, co, hazmat, water, trench or high angle rescue calls does the Pearson Airport have on an annual basis.

Both departments provide a vital role in their communities but trying to compare the two is pointless. The needs of people living and working 24/7 in a city are vastly different than those just passing thru or working at an airport.

Apples and oranges may look the same in Toronto but not out here.

[frfghtr]

i was just thinking that...

though they may not be residents, they sure as hell have a LOT of people pass through.

That's my point. They're passing thru it.

How many airplane passengers need help because of industrial accidents or careless cooking or mva's or falling thru the ice or whatever?


Apples and oranges?

[bestcoast]

That's my point. They're passing thru it.

How many airplane passengers need help because of industrial accidents or careless cooking or mva's or falling thru the ice or whatever?


Apples and oranges?
I agree. Totally different, an airport and a major city....BC.......

[sunfire67]

I didn't realize that the number of calls and services was the issue. All that I was concerned with was that Pearson was the first fire department to provide the service, that is how this all got started.

I thought firefighting was a brotherhood.

[yyz_arff]

When I became a firefighter, a brother told me something that has always stuck with me. 1 Never ever bad mouth your own department, never ever bad mouth another dpeartment. We are ALL IAFF brothers. 2 No matter municipal, airport, industrial volunteer, military all firefighters have the same heart.

You may be surprised but pearson airport is a city in its self. We have schools (eg air canada flight attendant school, pilot training facilities)hydro power generating stations, hotels, churchs, gas stations, fuel depots, jails, clothing stores restaurants,bars, currency exchanges, medical clinics and most important Tim Hortons!

As far as employees go there is over 70,000 total on-site employees from the airlines, aviation support, passenger services, retail, food and beverage, and the federal government.
When it comes to air travel, 29,914,750 passengers travelled in 2005:
12.9 million domestic passengers.
8.8 million trans-border passengers.
8.2 million international passengers

The letter the chief wrote as far as I can tell is in support of WFPS in there progression in to 21st century. Is airport firefighting different then municipal firefighting? Yes, well kind of. We dont go to house fires.

Our 2 firehalls ran 4300 calls last year. 70% were medical response. That also included MVC's, hazmat, alarms, co , fires fuel spills and aircraft emergencies. I almost forgot, 1 plane crash you may have caught it on CNN. Personaly, I could not sit at a municipal fire hall and watch city buses drive by. I prefer watching 747's scream down the runway 300 yrds from my fire hall.

Check out www.gtaa.com/festi.

[redneck65]

nice one you told him

[bestcoast]

When I became a firefighter, a brother told me something that has always stuck with me. 1 Never ever bad mouth your own department, never ever bad mouth another dpeartment. We are ALL IAFF brothers. 2 No matter municipal, airport, industrial volunteer, military all firefighters have the same heart.

You may be surprised but pearson airport is a city in its self. We have schools (eg air canada flight attendant school, pilot training facilities)hydro power generating stations, hotels, churchs, gas stations, fuel depots, jails, clothing stores restaurants,bars, currency exchanges, medical clinics and most important Tim Hortons!

As far as employees go there is over 70,000 total on-site employees from the airlines, aviation support, passenger services, retail, food and beverage, and the federal government.
When it comes to air travel, 29,914,750 passengers travelled in 2005:
12.9 million domestic passengers.
8.8 million trans-border passengers.
8.2 million international passengers

The letter the chief wrote as far as I can tell is in support of WFPS in there progression in to 21st century. Is airport firefighting different then municipal firefighting? Yes, well kind of. We dont go to house fires.

Our 2 firehalls ran 4300 calls last year. 70% were medical response. That also included MVC's, hazmat, alarms, co , fires fuel spills and aircraft emergencies. I almost forgot, 1 plane crash you may have caught it on CNN. Personaly, I could not sit at a municipal fire hall and watch city buses drive by. I prefer watching 747's scream down the runway 300 yrds from my fire hall.

Check out www.gtaa.com/festi.
I wasn't bad mouthing another department i just thought there was some major differences. Thanks for the info on pearson and yes it is a bit of an eye opener for me personally. It make me wonder about the situation at yvr(Vancouver International) it is a smaller airport than pearson but its still fairly large and getting bigger and busier all the time. The airport used to have its own FD then it was taken over by Richmond Fire. Just recently the airport took it over again and the FD is now almost a POC operation(difference being they are still getting an hourly wage calls or not) with the guys spread throughout the airport doing other tasks and respond to a page in case of an emergency. Thats what i was told by one of our rookies we hired who is ex airport Fire. Seems crazy to me that you wouldn't have trained airport FF's ready to respond at a moments notice to a crash!!....response time is everything when it comes to a 747 going down you would think......Risk management at its finest!!.....BC.....

[yyz_arff]

[ Seems crazy to me that you wouldn't have trained airport FF's ready to respond at a moments notice to a crash!!....response time is everything when it comes to a 747 going down you would think..[/QUOTE]


We train hard here at PAFD. Planes dont crash every day (thank god) but when they do I think we proved we are ready.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/08/03/rescue-plane050803.html

[bestcoast]

[ Seems crazy to me that you wouldn't have trained airport FF's ready to respond at a moments notice to a crash!!....response time is everything when it comes to a 747 going down you would think..


We train hard here at PAFD. Planes dont crash every day (thank god) but when they do I think we proved we are ready.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/08/03/rescue-plane050803.html[/QUOTE]


I don't doubt you train hard,we all do, I was refering to the situation at Vancouver International.......BC.....

[yyz_arff]

Im not sure the situaton at yvr. I know that CARs canadian aviation regulations is out of date.

[frfghtr]

When I became a firefighter, a brother told me something that has always stuck with me. 1 Never ever bad mouth your own department, never ever bad mouth another dpeartment. We are ALL IAFF brothers. 2 No matter municipal, airport, industrial volunteer, military all firefighters have the same heart.

Personaly, I could not sit at a municipal fire hall and watch city buses drive by.
Check out www.gtaa.com/festi.

Who says we sit and watch buses? Seems like a shot to me.

As for Mr. Figliola's letter, he is bad mouthing our department by criticizing Mr. Forrest's and Mr. Walsh's concerns.

One thing that we as fire fighters/paramedics can agree on that seems to be lost in the whole picture, is that as our role in the community increases, the Regional Health Authorities that try to run our departments, cannot off-load their own responsibilty to the citizens on us. Hallway medicine is now turning into street medicine and these bandaide solutions that show the incompetence of our Federal, Provincial and Civic leaders and total disregard to our crumbling health care system is totally unacceptable.

In my opinion, the 1.2 billion spent on the gun registry fiasco, would have and should been put into health care.

We never really complain about our responsibilities, we just want it done properly, safely and realistically. We also want to ensure that if someone does call 911, we'll be there to answer the call and then get there in a reasonable time. Who knows, it may even be a fire and our medical authorities seem to forget that we still get those once in a while.

Take care brother.

[tmehmel]

We are ALL IAFF brothers. 2 No matter municipal, airport, industrial volunteer, military all firefighters have the same heart.

Just to correct this, we are all Brothers period. IAFF does not cover us vollies

just a point sorry to interupt
tom

[bestcoast]

We are ALL IAFF brothers. 2 No matter municipal, airport, industrial volunteer, military all firefighters have the same heart.

Just to correct this, we are all Brothers period. IAFF does not cover us vollies

just a point sorry to interupt
tom
It was a discussion between two IAFF members(which is why its in the union section), thats why it was worded that way. It wasn't meant to slight,or exclude volunteers...geez..:rolleyes:........BC.....

[yyz_arff]

Personaly, I could not sit at a municipal fire hall and watch city buses drive by. I prefer watching 747's scream down the runway 300 yrds from my fire hall.
[/url].

Just for the record I was not taking a cheap shot at you. You shouldn't be so defensive. lol

Overall what matters is patient care. You know as well as I do firefighters get to the scene faster then EMS. I didnt want to admit that when I was a medic, but it is true. SR is one more tool on your apparatus that will save lives, it is simple and it works.It is our job and our responsibility . Not to mention it is a great bargaining chip. It has helped us being the highest paid FF in ontario maybe even the country.

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - Winnipeg paramedics are asking the provincial Labour Board to keep firefighters from meddling in medical emergencies. A union representing ambulance crews wants the independent board to step in after the city’s fire first-responder recruits were given responsibility to offer medical treatment such as nitro patches, ASA and epinephrine to patients. That’s a task that the paramedics and fire crews’ union say has been dumped on new members before they’re ready to handle it. And that, they warn, puts patients at risk.

Marc Savard, vice-president with the Professional Paramedic Association of Winnipeg, confirmed only that his union wants a ruling on “a certification of new personnel” regarding which of the two unions certain crew members should belong to.

Source: winnipegsun.com (http://winnipegsun.com/News/Winnipeg/2006/04/26/1552147.html)

[tmehmel]

I thought this was basic first aid? The exception is offering diagnosis, but if the patient has their own meds we can offer assistance. Please dont get me wrong im just a bit confused with what is being described.
tom

[PEMS17]

I thought this was basic first aid? The exception is offering diagnosis, but if the patient has their own meds we can offer assistance. Please dont get me wrong im just a bit confused with what is being described.
tom
This is beyond that, this is pulling tricks out of the bag, even if the patient doesn't have their own Rx. For or against it, these guys need to be exposed before it is thrust upon them. Apparently not happening

[Firefighter1680]

These are recruits trained to PCP level. They are now for the first time being able to use all their skills. Rx etc.. Licensed firefighter/paramedics. They are all trained to this level, they are not first responders as the Winnipeg Sun says. As far as exposed, some are right out of college, so they have the skills, just havent hit the street. Be the same as a rookie medic, only now they have to learn Firefighting and how to be a competent medic.


WPFS has not hired or trained responders in a number of years. In 2000 you had to have your EMT, then I believe 2002/03 they changed to PCP. Up until this past year if you were hired you were designated a fire medic. A PCP but only functionin to a certain level. Those hired before with EMT, like me we functioned as 1st responders, even though never given an responder course. Does this clear up the confusion??

[PEMS17]

It's been 8 years, I don't think they'll ever clear up all the confusion:p

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - The unions representing Winnipeg's firefighters and paramedics say they've learned the city government has taken steps to force the two unions to merge. Representatives for both the United Fire Fighters of Winnipeg and the Professional Paramedics Association of Winnipeg say they have received notification of an application made to the Manitoba Labour Board to force the unions to merge.

UFFW president Alex Forrest says his union will oppose the move – but if the labour board forces a vote or moves on its own to choose which union would represent both groups, Forrest predicts the firefighters' union would win. "We're preparing our response right now. We're saying that, at this time … we're going to take the unique step of saying that we don't want those extra 200 members because it's not in the interests of the public".

Source: cbc.ca (http://www.cbc.ca/manitoba/story/mb_union-merger-20060502.html)

[frfghtr]

Yahoo! A shotgun weddin.

Dis shud be fun.

Ain't ad one of deze since Betty Sue got cawt foolin wit Willy Rae in da rut cellar. Be grate to git all da kuzins togeder agin.

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - The chief of Winnipeg's Fire and Paramedic Service says there's still time to work out a deal between the emergency workers' two unions before the Manitoba Labour Board makes a decision on merging them. Chief Wes Shoemaker acknowledges the city of Winnipeg has told the labour board that firefighters and paramedics should be brought into a single union.

The move would resolve the jurisdictional issues that have plagued attempts to merge the two workforces, a move that has been in the works since 1998. There is still the opportunity for all of the parties to come together and come to some voluntary agreement about overcoming these jurisdictional disputes and boundaries," Shoemaker told CBC News.

"If I had my preference … that's where I hope this brings us."

Source: cbc.ca (http://www.cbc.ca/manitoba/story/mb-fire-paramedic-20060503.html?ref=rss)

[five_alarm]

WINNIPEG, MB - It might be the closest city hall comes to an arranged marriage -- and both sides are already clamouring for a divorce. The Winnipeg Fire-Paramedic Service is trying to force all its emergency responders into a single union by applying to the Manitoba Labour Board for its blessing. The move is part of the city's drive to create a single department of firefighters and ambulance crews.

It would produce one labour organization from an amalgamation of three unions -- the Professional Paramedic Association of Winnipeg, the United Fire Fighters of Winnipeg and the Winnipeg Fire-Paramedic Senior Officers Association, which represents middle management employees. Paramedic union vice-president Marc Savard blasted the application as a sign of city hall's desperation to keep the eight-year-old amalgamation from falling apart.

Source: winnipegsun.com (http://winnipegsun.com/News/Winnipeg/2006/05/03/1561932-sun.html)