Building Size up Methods

[LtBlondie]

Let's talk building size up..Anyone travel around checking out the bizarre structures they may have to deal with in a fire situation...man be have some real doozies here in Vaughan, thought I'd start a thread to see what people are thinking when they arrive at these buildings..abviously construction, age roof styles etc anything else? Oh, access and egress BIG ones..

[FitSsikS]

A biggie for me is trying to see what you can't see.

In other words, when you pull up to the structure your initial size up is determined by the somewhat limited view you have at that time.
Personally, I like to run the perimeter of the building while my guys are laying lines. If it is a large industrial structure we may "drive it" or have other trucks do the same.

You need to have the best possible estimate of the building/contruction/layout before you can draw any conclusions about any smoke or flame that you may see.

Quite often, if flames are visible at a window we...ahemm....become moths and head for that window. It becomes our focus.....
perhaps a firefighter even sticks a nozzle in there.:(

It pays to do as much 'looking' as possible, updating your sizeup and tactics as you gain info.

[LtBlondie]

Yeah I remember when I did the promotional routine...one of the guys on the board nearly fell over me he was soooo close when I was doing my walk around!!!

[LtBlondie]

Building Construction, name on the front of the business helps too..

[LTPVFD]

Number of things I look at, including size, height, occupancy, access and egress for both suppression efforts and apparatus placement, time of day, and if available, a preplan for the building.

As new structures are being built within our response area, I try and get a look inside at the type of construction. This helps visualize what hazards we may face if responding to a call either during construction, or once the building is completed.

Stay safe !!


LTPVFD

[irsqyu]

Let's talk building size up..Anyone travel around checking out the bizarre structures they may have to deal with in a fire situation...man be have some real doozies here in Vaughan, thought I'd start a thread to see what people are thinking when they arrive at these buildings..abviously construction, age roof styles etc anything else? Oh, access and egress BIG ones..

Being a Captain, I take it upon myself to find out about every building and industry I can in my district. We do an "Industry tour" on Sunday mornings and do walk arounds.If I see something new or a place I hav'nt checked out, I will contact them to see if we can get a look around, I found most industry owners and businesses are more than willing to give is a guided tour answering all of our questions. If there are any new structures I make it a point to contact the site super and keep track of access and what is going on. We do the same with the new home construction in our district, it's a great chance to get the crew familiarized with building construction, whether it be curtain wall or wood frame. We also have a preplanning section in our department intranet where we can share the info complete with pictures of important things such as standpipes, annunciators etc. Being around 30 years I have come to know pretty well all of the major target hazards in the city.:)

[FireStudent]

These ones are pretty standard approaches apparently:

COAL WAS WEALTH (variations)

Construction
Ocuupancy
Apparatus (are there enough? Additional apparatus required etc.)
Life safety (FF, victims?)

Water supply
Appliances (standpipes, autosprinklers, etc.)
Size (height etc)

Weather
Exposures
Area (of building, or fire groud etc.)
Location
Time (of day. Will lighting be required? etc.)
Hazards (any blockades? Traffic is flowing well? Obvious scene hazards?)


LOVERS U (Ariel Apparatus)

Laddering
Overhaul
Ventilation
Entry
Rescue and search
Salvage

Utilities


BELOW (1st in units)

Building
Extent and location of fire
Life hazard
Occupancy
Water supply

http://firechief.com/tactics/firefighting_behind_closed_doors/ has these and some more info.

[ABFF37]

Being a Captain, I take it upon myself to find out about every building and industry I can in my district. We do an "Industry tour" on Sunday mornings and do walk arounds.If I see something new or a place I hav'nt checked out, I will contact them to see if we can get a look around, I found most industry owners and businesses are more than willing to give is a guided tour answering all of our questions. If there are any new structures I make it a point to contact the site super and keep track of access and what is going on. We do the same with the new home construction in our district, it's a great chance to get the crew familiarized with building construction, whether it be curtain wall or wood frame. We also have a preplanning section in our department intranet where we can share the info complete with pictures of important things such as standpipes, annunciators etc. Being around 30 years I have come to know pretty well all of the major target hazards in the city.:)


Sounds like a good set up irsqyu. This is the reason that I like doing inspections. My department, like many out there, inspects all commercial, high density residential, and industrial properties in our district.

I find it's a great way to learn about the building, it's contents, emergency response plans, where we are best to stage our apparatus, standpipe connections and so on...oh and how could I forget the location of the annunciator pannel for those 3am false alarms ;)

Getting out before a fire and learning the area and becoming familliar with what you may be up against at a call one day is extremely valuable, and just as important as a proper size up upon arrival at an actual call.

AB

[Dave404]

We do inspections of all businesses in our area. This allows us to get a pretty good idea of what we are going to need at a fire. It also gets us talking with the businesses on how to plan correctly - any storage or factories that deal with chemicals, we have them post all of the chemicals in a secure location with the appropriate WHMIS and floor lay out of the building.

So when we get on scene - we note the name, and during initial walk around, we get the ducuments from the box and can set up our entry and exit points. Also we will know what is in the building and therfore set up evacuation areas if needed.

[FireStudent]

How many departments represented here have preplan binders/books for buildings in their response area that they carry on their apparatus? How would that influence their size-up? Is that a resource you would use right away or something you would hold off on until a proper Incident Command structure could be established and in the meantime go with what you know from tours etc.?

[LTPVFD]

We carry a set of preplans on all of our apparatus. One of the first things I do, once I am onboard the truck, is check the address for a preplan. If a preplan exists, I will do a quick review with the engineer prior to departing the hall, confirming he/she knows the location of the nearest hydrants, fire department connection etc. I will then review it in more detail enroute to the call. We usually have a Duty Chief or Duty Officer on scene prior to the apparatus arrival, who will give a size up of the incident. :cool:

Stay safe !!


LTPVFD

[ABFF37]

How many departments represented here have preplan binders/books for buildings in their response area that they carry on their apparatus? How would that influence their size-up? Is that a resource you would use right away or something you would hold off on until a proper Incident Command structure could be established and in the meantime go with what you know from tours etc.?

We have preplans for some of the buildings in our district. Most noteable, the university campus, the two large malls in our area, and a couple of schools. Do we have pre-plans for every building? No. Should we? Yes.

Historically it has just not been possible to obtain a current pre plan of every building and have it in the truck ready to go. However we have just installed a new GPS computer system in all of our rigs, and one of the possible uses of this system in addition to mapping and dispatching is to have pre-plans and building information available through the computer system. Pre-plans are extremely important for fire ground command to have, especially at calls involving larger structures.

AB

[FireStudent]

We have preplans for some of the buildings in our district. Most noteable, the university campus, the two large malls in our area, and a couple of schools. Do we have pre-plans for every building? No. Should we? Yes.
AB

I was generally refering to key buildings like hospitals, librarys, schools, malls, industrial buildings, buildings over X stories etc.

But here is an idea, just to throw it out. Some company may already have this software or stuff like it, I'm not sure. Apparatus with GPS and onboard computer for hazmat, dispatch etc. could easily bring up blueprints, if they had them. They can also auto update (maps must be updated) so why could they not be used to access all blueprints for all buildings in a town/city? Everytime a building is to be renovated, the owner must submit a blueprint and design for the renovation. How hard would it be to enter this into a computer? Likewise, subdivisions must also be approved. These are even easier since there are typically only a few designs and then variations on the theme so to speak. It would take a while to build the database but eventually all buildings are going to be renovated, built or replaced. If you immedately added key buildings (ones already in preplans) to the database then you could slowly add all the others in over time. Its not like you couldn't get by without it (you have for a long time), so it would just be a slow process, building itself up however fast the department/city are willing to go. This still doesn't help for illegal renovations (I'm thinking basement apartments here) but it would still be a big help.

That would be huge for preplans and sizeups. The first on scene officer could have virtually all information about the building right away. Contruction material, standpipe locations, hydrants, sprinklers, occupancy stats, blueprints etc. All you would have to do is analyse the information to tell where people would be at that time, factor in where the fire started (can get that from the annunciator) and theoretically couldn't you predict where the fire would be when you got there (given that you would know the location of fire breaks etc.). It would take some extra training for officers but hey.

[Dave404]

Firestudent,

You are on the right track for the future. Many departments are looking at a GIS system. It is on Lap Top and primarily gives you road and infrastructure. You can add layers to the program that would allow for pre-plans of buildings. We are looking at the technology and hope to have it deployed in stages over the next year or so. Of course the major stumbling block is money!