Handling death at MVC [Archive] - The Firehall.com Forum

Bankerbob

07-07-2006, 01:37 PM

iamvff

07-07-2006, 02:07 PM

We recently had a serious MVC which resulted in the death of a 35 yr old mom and serious injury to her 4 yr old boy. I was the firefighter who did the vechicle ex. The chief wants a debrief for those that attended with OHC Stress specialist. Has anyone attended this type of thing before. I am a 15 yr vet. and have seen lots of this in the past but he is recommending everyone attend.
BOB.....it should have been done by now! Get it done ASAP! Yes it helps (some) Members will get out of it what they want to get out of it. Respect that! I have been in the exact same shoes you are in now, and we did the CISM meeting right away.....it helps, trust me! If you have any questions don't hesitate to PM someone (me or whoever your comfortable with) The CISM meeting should happen that same day, or the next day at the latest. Abstain from alchohol, and make sure everyone has a comfortable forum to talk. Nobody will be right or wrong, it is simply a forum to say whats on your mind. I have seen people cry, get pissed off, or just talk...it's all good! I personally make it a habit to get in touch with the people who came across the accident, just to make sure they have someone to talk to. Any question...just ask!

iamvff

Bankerbob

07-07-2006, 02:12 PM

Thanks a heap for the feedback. The MVC was yesterday and we are meeting this sunday! Great suggestions, and advice. As I said I have been doing this along time and was a police officer before in Toronto so I have seen alot. I have a great relationship with my wife and she has been a strong sounding board. We had alot of rookies at the accident so I can see where it will help.

bestcoast

07-07-2006, 02:15 PM

We recently had a serious MVC which resulted in the death of a 35 yr old mom and serious injury to her 4 yr old boy. I was the firefighter who did the vechicle ex. The chief wants a debrief for those that attended with OHC Stress specialist. Has anyone attended this type of thing before. I am a 15 yr vet. and have seen lots of this in the past but he is recommending everyone attend.
Further to what iamvff has said. On my job it isn't mandatory to attend a CISM if you don't want to. I have been to a couple and they are actually a good thing IMO. Even if you feel you don't need to go ,you might be able to help out a junior member who is having a tough time with it. I would say go and help out others on your department if they need someone to talk too....Sometimes just sitting there and listening to someone does a world of good.................BC...................

wilderness

07-07-2006, 03:14 PM

As a group or as an individual, if you act as a team, you not only help yourself but you might help someone who is there.... been told everyone handles these things diffrently, i think i would like a group setting to make me think that i wasn't the onlyone feeling the pain....
but again thats just me.........

dentedhead

07-07-2006, 04:07 PM

Bob if you feel it is something that you would benifit by.... do it.However I am very much against departmental enforced group debriefings.We all react differently, I can assure you I have seen my fair share of death dismemberment and sickness. I deal with it my own way and move on.I absolutley hate being forced to attend these debrieifings.

You have to look after yourself watch how much alcohol you drink eat properly and stay active.If talking helps, do it! With who YOU are comfortable with not who the chief or dept tells you to talk to.

Not trying to come across as a grizzled burnt out guy but I process and see these events as just part of a job,a job that can be shitty at times true enough.

Stay well brother and look after your yourself.

Dentedhead

smoke286

07-07-2006, 04:57 PM

Kids are the worst to deal with man, dead people don't bother me (I guess its a matter of frequency), but kids tear me up.

bestcoast

07-07-2006, 11:30 PM

Kids are the worst to deal with man, dead people don't bother me (I guess its a matter of frequency), but kids tear me up.
My thoughts exactly, only had a few so far in my career......touch wood.......BC.................

ABFF37

07-08-2006, 11:46 AM

Kids are the worst to deal with man, dead people don't bother me (I guess its a matter of frequency), but kids tear me up.

I would have to agree on that one as well! The last thing I want is a call where a child has been hurt or worse!!!:(

One positive did come out of a call involving a child once though. Three year old girl was choking on a button off of her pajamas...we were first on scene and got her airway opened up and administered O2...long drawn out story short...she made it through perfectly fine and healthy. What a rewarding call that turned out to be!

Back to the topic at hand...of the few debriefings that I have attended, I've personally never really felt the need for them myself. But that is just ME and based on how I have handled things. I think that it is a good idea to attend if for no other reason than to show support to your fellow firefighters who may be affected differently. Of course if the idea makes you uncomfortable, you should be free to choose not to attend. Dealing with stress and tragic calls is something that everyone handles differently. What works for you works for you!

AB

iamvff

07-08-2006, 12:11 PM

I do not get overly worked up myself either. I do however think that it is important that all attend, not because it should be mandatory, but because it may encourage the ones that are to shy, or want to be like the seasoned guys, to attend. Team work and family does not end outside of the fireground.

iamvff

Bankerbob

07-10-2006, 05:45 AM

iamvff

07-10-2006, 08:45 AM

Thanks to all that responded with your advice and thoughts. The debrief was last night and I attended. I guess I was surprised by the number of different reactions I saw from senior members to the rookies there. One thing for certain, we all agreed we are a family and there to support each other!
Glad to hear things went well Bob. Just remember to not let it end there. Check back with people periodically. Even if it is just a..."hey, how are things going".

iamvff

DCCHam

12-17-2007, 07:25 PM

We recently had a serious MVC which resulted in the death of a 35 yr old mom and serious injury to her 4 yr old boy. I was the firefighter who did the vechicle ex. The chief wants a debrief for those that attended with OHC Stress specialist. Has anyone attended this type of thing before. I am a 15 yr vet. and have seen lots of this in the past but he is recommending everyone attend.

This post hits really close to home for me....we had a 4 vehicle MVC call this past saturday, with the driver (the Dad) ejected, the passenger (the Mom) was killed instantly, and their 3 year old daughter is on life support awaiting another child to donate her organs to.

I've been in the fire service for 16 years now, and tonight was my first ever time at a CISM Team session. I thought I was only going to attend for our 'younger members' to show my support.....but after having sat through the session, I really felt it helped me more then I thought I needed any.

fire44

12-17-2007, 07:45 PM

A lot of people don't think they need a difusing, but after you do one you will realize that you did need one. Some others also think that these meetings are for wimps who cant handle the stresses of the job, I say man up, attend the meeting for yourself and for the support of your brothers and sisters. We have had RCMP attened some of our difusing meetings after difficult incidents, they really appreciate it. I'm suprised the RCMP doesn't do their own.

DCCHam

12-17-2007, 07:52 PM

We had 3 of the RCMP officers at ours tonight as well. None of the paramedics showed up at all though....but that didn't surprise me.

Nagrom

12-18-2007, 04:59 PM

This post hits really close to home for me....we had a 4 vehicle MVC call this past saturday, with the driver (the Dad) ejected, the passenger (the Mom) was killed instantly, and their 3 year old daughter is on life support awaiting another child to donate her organs to.

I've been in the fire service for 16 years now, and tonight was my first ever time at a CISM Team session. I thought I was only going to attend for our 'younger members' to show my support.....but after having sat through the session, I really felt it helped me more then I thought I needed any.

Glad your doin better Ham.

foamboy

12-19-2007, 09:14 AM

As a trained provider of CISM/CISD I don't think any of us know how valuable it is until we participate. One of the most important views or concepts is accetptng what has happened. We may not agree with the death or how the person died but the acceptance is key and that also means using the terms I did in the pevious sentence. No "passed on", no "went to the other side", and so on. I don't mean to be glib but that I have heard these statements/words used and it is necessary to use final terms to really help the process. When you hear "dead" or "died". those are words where there is no leeway for interpretation. The CISM process does help, immensely I might add, as long as it is not used indiscrimately and most importantly, in a timely manner. As for the comment the Paramedics did not attend and that it was not a surprise, the EMS community is not immune. We do hold our own sessions and those that choose not to participate might be doing themselves harm. Encourage participation of EMS personnel along with police services but do ensure a peer from the applicable service is there too. I think that is the fear - i.e. that one of "their own" will not be there and the lone attendee will be singled out.

Tiger_FFAO

12-23-2007, 06:04 AM

One of the most important views or concepts is accetptng what has happened. We may not agree with the death or how the person died but the acceptance is key and that also means using the terms I did in the pevious sentence. No "passed on", no "went to the other side", and so on. I don't mean to be glib but that I have heard these statements/words used and it is necessary to use final terms to really help the process. When you hear "dead" or "died". those are words where there is no leeway for interpretation. .

I definitely agree with that. Not just in the Service, but everywhere too. Don't get me wrong, all people grieve/mourn different, and I'm cool with that. Just saying, once you do lay it out like that "Lookit, they're dead." It really does help you come back "to earth" or however you want to phrase it.

Jon_ACVFD

01-12-2008, 12:09 PM

i know im a little late with the respond but just wanted to add from personal experience that the debreifing or CISM after a rather hard incident does help out a lot. in the fall of 2006 i went to 2 of them within a close period of time (approx a month), and just sitting there with a couple councellers and all the guys talking about things really helped.

randyrescue

07-23-2008, 07:24 AM

We had 3 of the RCMP officers at ours tonight as well. None of the paramedics showed up at all though....but that didn't surprise me.

Reminds me of a joke comparing ambulance's to cactus'

FFChick

07-26-2008, 06:35 PM

I know for a fact that debriefing helps a lot! I've been in my fire dept. for over a year now, and last month I got called to my first MVA. It was a 3 car pile-up, everyone was fine except the 91 year old man who had a heart attack on impact, he was DOA. Since we were very short on resourses (and I'm a First Responder) I started CPR and within 2 minutes when I realised what I was doing I was about 1 step close to fainting, so I went away behind the engine away from it all. Then 7 hours later (during our weekly practice) another MVA came in, and the 16 year old girl (found out the next day she was my old best friend) who I worked on too for about 5 minutes until the paramedics got there didn't make it. I was having a rough time, looked very pale and sick at practice, and didn't sleep at all that night, so I went to debriefing the next night. The whole expirence was very good and 'm very happy I went.

**Kate**