Cfsl

[firsq]

Has anybody taken the course offered at Dalhousie University "Certificate in Fire Service leadership?" If you have give me your impression of this type of learning thanks Stay Safe.

[Firefighter1680]

I am starting it in fall. Another Firefigher I work with has done the CFSL and went on to CFSA. Its a 4 year total course if you take both. I plan to take both. From what he has told me its very good. He has learned tons and our dept paid for half. Make sure you write a letter to yor chief and ask if the dept will take some of the cost as contiuning education. Im going to be doing the corrospondence I believe, but you can do it on line as well. Keep in touch
WPGFF1680

[HOSE_HOUND]

Finished the CFSL program June 2003, through Henson College of Dalhousie University. In our department this program is paid for by the department, who pays for so many seats per course and offers the courses to firefighters who apply each semester by their seniority. It is also one of the pre-requisites in our department to have this certification in order to be eligible to write for Lieutenant promotional exams. Hense, if you want to progress in your career you have to have it.

Hmmm, let me see, three semesters total (1 year); "Dealing with People", Dealing with New Operations", and "The Environment of the Fire Station". Each of these semesters involves writting either 4 or 5 papers and submitting them by pre-determined dates through the mail to various instructors for grading (I have since heard some may now be able to submitted through email, though I'm not sure); for a total of 13 assignments. To receive your certificate, I believe you need to maintain a 70% average on each semester. Reading materials are supplied with the course, but like many university papers, papers must lead the reader through a flow of information that supports your views and conclusions. Referencing of all supporting statements you make must be foot-noted or put into a bibliography to give credit where credit is due (they are picky about this).

Anyway, it covers a lot of leadership issues that directly ties volunteer departments to career departments (training, composite, etc.). Some papers actually challenge your beliefs, depending on your being volunteer or career. Some papers actually do give you a choice to some questions concerning these issues, while other questions do not give you a choice. As a professional (career) firefighter I found that many situations were really out of touch with the level of responsibilities that I would be actively involved with , while other situations do indeed give you some key points in being a good station officer. Motivating volunteer firefighters and motivating career firefighters requires different approaches. These differences are explained, then it is up to you to apply them in a qestion around a scenario and form a conclusion that can be supported by the supplemental reading materials. Other questions directly challenge your personal beliefs, and may require that you re-think your ways. Some answers are neither right nor wrong, but must have supporting materials to give your point credibility.

Lost Yet? Anyway, overall it was a good course, but very demanding on your personal time. I personally found it hard to get into reading and writting of assignments at the hall, so I found late nights at home, after everyone was gone to bed, to be the best time to write assignments. Some of these papers are 2000- 3000 words long, so some work on your part is involved.

If you do apply, and get accepted to do the course let me know if you need any help.

Hope this does not confuse you, or deter you. Good luck.

[HOSE_HOUND]

Will be applying this Fall to do the CFSA program as it to is paid for by our department as well. Another three years to complete for the certificate, however, only one year of this program is required as one of the pre-requisites to write for the Captains Promotional exam in our department. Might as well get it done sooner rather than later. As well, the CFSL is the pre-requisite to this program. Also, these semesters in the certificate programs are credits that can be applied to further studies toward a technical teaching degree.

[smoke286]

Anyway, it covers a lot of leadership issues that directly ties volunteer departments to career departments (training, composite, etc.). Some papers actually challenge your beliefs, depending on your being volunteer or career. Some papers actually do give you a choice to some questions concerning these issues, while other questions do not give you a choice. As a professional (career) firefighter I found that many situations were really out of touch with the level of responsibilities that I would be actively involved with , while other situations do indeed give you some key points in being a good station officer. Motivating volunteer firefighters and motivating career firefighters requires different approaches.
.


I should add that some in our Dept dislike this program intensely because they feel it has a degree of anti-union/ pro volunteer sentiment. However generally its considered pretty benign, just another of level of nonsense introduced by management in order to gain promotion.

Personally I feel advanced course for those who wish to be promoted is a good thing, I just wish the subject matter was more closely attuned to our job.

[hmckay91]

Just finished the CFSL course this spring. I would echo HOSE_HOUND in his very honest assessment. I would add that I adveraged about 20+ Hours per assignement. Be ready for the commitment.

However if you have taken any NFPA 1021 level (I have finished Level 1)training you will recognise the same type of material, most of which was not new to me. Regardless of your beliefs, the material does challenge them and you have to defend and support your views which is the good part.

smoke286

I found a pretty good balance in the assignments between career, volunteer, and composite delivery methods. It is perhaps because I come from a volunteer background (and have survived most of those situations in the case studies) that I found it applicable. I would suggest that inlight of approximatly 80 percent of the fire service in Canada being volunteer that the balance is pretty good, too bad some in your Dept don't like it.

Perhaps they are more interested in getting promoted than in being good leaders/officers. (Wasn't that an assignment, about Crosby losing his promotion?)

[Firefighter1680]

Finished my 1st course for CFSL - dealing with people.. was a really good course.. Lots of time though reading and writing.. Was nice you could email the assignments in.. SOme instructors dont let you.. My next course I have to mail.. Very good course, I think should be mandatory for all officers..

[FFWannabe]

Finished my 1st course for CFSL - dealing with people.. was a really good course.. Lots of time though reading and writing.. Was nice you could email the assignments in.. SOme instructors dont let you.. My next course I have to mail.. Very good course, I think should be mandatory for all officers..

Hey 1680, is this a course anyone can take? Do you have a link to the course information?

Thanks! Sue :)

[Firefighter1680]

Sue - Yeah you can get there through Dalhousie University.
http://collegeofcontinuinged.dal.ca/fire/indexfire.html

Certificate in Fire Service leadership is one year, then you can go for the degree, another 3 years - Certificate in Fire Service Admin. You do have to have minimum of 3 years working or volunterring in the fire service..

You can check it out at that link

[Lookin4Work]

I applied but when they found out I was from BC I was denied because the JI has a course similar. I am currently taking that right now, very interesting but also a lot of work

[Firefighter1680]

How can they deny you because the JI has a similiar course? Dalhousie is Unversity, you register pay your money and you go.? Have you been a Firefighter for a the 3 year minimum? looking at the JI site doenst have that prerequiste. That doesnt make any sense. You were denied for CFSL or CFSA?

[Lookin4Work]

that's what i thought too. i was pretty shocked. I live about 1250 km's from the JI, so it shouldnt matter.i had registered and the lady in the office there was processing it until she noticed my address. I believe it was for the CFSL (the beginner part of the studies).

[Firefighter1680]

do you have 3 years minimum? I live in winnipeg.. Im about equal distance to either.. I do knwo that it would be hard for you to get some of your assignments in.. Some of the instructors dont allow email or fax submissions.. VERY dumb.. Assignment due on 21st for me means I hve to submit on the 19th.. Not right..

[Lookin4Work]

yeah, i have the 3 years minimum. i was accepted and everything and ready to be registered. it was the fact that Im in BC and I guess the JI has "jurisdiction". I don't mind though, it'
s still an interesting course and the JI probably has more pull behind it if I am applying within BC

[HOSE_HOUND]

Hey Lookin4Work,

I'm not so sure that is the case, unless things have changed. When I first did this course back in 2002 a class list was distributed to each student of the course, along with their emails addies, home addresses, and phone numbers so that we could seek help from each other during the course if we so desired. I still have my copy of this class list and I see 2 people from BC who were doing this course at the same time, one student from Smithers, BC and another from Victoria, BC, along with a substantial number of students from Alberta, Ontario, and even one from Whitehorse, Yukon. Unless they have changed this in the last few years I would suggest you investigate further to why you were denied a placement on the course. Remember, be sure to ask who you are speaking with at all times when asking questions so that they know you are making them accountable for their answers.

We live in Canada, and your right to avail of courses that are offered anywhere in the country should not have been based on location. That is outright discrimination if you met all other requirements. I would also make a complaint to their department head of any questionable actions that saw you removed from this training program. These actions may have been the work of one individual who made serious flaws by removing you from the program for other reasons that do not comply with Dalhousie University entry requirements. I would certainley investigate this matter more thoroughly and take all appropriated actions to prevent being pushed around. Ask them to send you a letter stating why you were not accepted, and once you receive it, if it is questionable....go further.

Just a little info which I hope helps lead you to the truth.

[Firefighter1680]

I Was looking at the course content and it does actually talk about that fact. That the JI has a course and depending on where you live you might not be able to apply.

[firsq]

Just started spring session...lots of reading but so far very interesting. By the way a class list was given with e-mail lists.

[Firefighter1680]

Station Officer - Environment of the Fire Station? with Glen Maddess? I just started, its my last block for CFSL. I get my cert. in June. Then on to CFSA for 3 years...

[Lookin4Work]

Hey hose_hound,

This was the case unfortunately. My info was being programmed into their computer while I was on the phone to the receptionist, and she realized where I lived and explained that they couldn't offer it to me if the JI has a similar course. I would make a bigger stink about it but it appears to have worked out for the best as the JI is offering a Bachelor in Fire Studies and the Diploma I am taking can lead right into it

[ffmedic38]

I just finished my Certificate in Fire Service Administration through Dalhousie's College of Continuing Education. It's a total of 4 years which included Fire Service Leadership and can be completed either by correspondence or online. A good learning experience for anyone, especially if you are, or plan on becoming an officer. The following is a link with the courses they offer for the fire service.

http://collegeofcontinuinged.dal.ca/fire/indexfire.html

They cannot design every module to suit everybody's department or situation. As the student, you must take the given information and be creative to discover how to apply it to you and your department. Think with an open mind and don't be afraid to ask for help from any resource you can think of.

[ffmedic38]

I applied but when they found out I was from BC I was denied because the JI has a course similar. I am currently taking that right now, very interesting but also a lot of work

Lookin4Work,

I saw your post a while ago and was surprised that they would not allow you to take it because of where you lived. I contacted one of my past instructors who is also one of the administrators to question her about. Here is a quote from her e-mail reply. I realize this may not help your situation, as you are now enrolled in the JI program, but hopefully it will help future BC students.

"The issue with BC students and the JI is no longer an issue. We had an agreement in the past which we have now dissolved. If you are ever on that forum again please let it be known that the agreement no longer exists."

[DFC]

I completed the CFSA in 2005 after doing the CFSL in 2002. IF you want to advance your knowledge about the fire service, especially the leadership and administrative responsibilities then you are well advised to look at these programs. The comment made about the pro volunteer content is a mistake. If you have taken the program you will know that Dr. Benoit who helped create the program is neither career or volunteer oriented. The program makes you look at management and how things are done. The leadership courses ask you look at scenarios and make some difficult decisions and justify those decisions based on what you have been taught, very interesting stuff .
Like any course, you only get out of it what you put into it. For the convenience of working at home towards a certificate program, that improves your knowledge and professional skills then this is something worth looking at. The BC justice institute does offer the same type of program and if you wish to take that program you need only apply. They do accept each other’s credits towards programs.
There is not a lot of courses out there that we as fire service professionals can take that can prepare us for a leadership and or administrative roles within or departments. I found these programs were a great way to achieve that goal.
Good Luck

[cdares]

Is there anyone in here enrolled for the start in January??

[Workingfire]

I'm in starting in January..."Dealing with People". Did you guys get your texts yet?

[Firefighter1680]

Thats a good Course.. who is your instructor? George Dunne?

[Workingfire]

Thats a good Course.. who is your instructor? George Dunne?

I have a local instructor from here in Ontario...I'm guessing cdares will have someone from Nova Scotia. Just a guess though.

[Firefighter1680]

You should have the same instructor, depending on what course you are taking. Its corrospondance and you all have the same one. I jsut finished my 1st one in CFSA and was Ken McMullen from Ont. They are from all over the place. George Dunne, I believe was Ont too.

[Workingfire]

You should have the same instructor, depending on what course you are taking. Its corrospondance and you all have the same one. I jsut finished my 1st one in CFSA and was Ken McMullen from Ont. They are from all over the place. George Dunne, I believe was Ont too.

I have McMullen for "Dealing With People". Cdares is starting with a different portion of the course.

[Firefighter1680]

I will give you a heads up about McMullen... Be very mindful of your writing style and explore the different styles out there. Be very sure to do research above and beyond what you read from your texts. Provide your argument, counter arguemnt and support your ideas through the research. I did very well through the CFSL, even got 100% on one paper, but McMullen was tougher as an instructor. Fair but really pushes you to develop the proper writing style.

[ffmedic38]

Your instructors will vary from module to module, as well as numbers of students enrolled. Some of my modules required half the students to submit assignments to one instructor, while the other half submitted to another instructor. Made no difference where you were located.

If at any time you have questions about your assignments, DO NOT hesitate to contact your instructor. They are more than happy to hear from you and more than willing to help.

[Scuba]

How much of the course is online? Are assignments submited in paper or online? Is the content and what you get from it worth the time? How much time (just a guess.. weekly?) does it take to do?

[Firefighter1680]

Scuba, You can choose online or co-orspndance.. Depends which course it is but if i am wiriting a paper takes me about 10 hours total. the reading is all variable , depends again on which course..

[Workingfire]

How much of the course is online? Are assignments submited in paper or online? Is the content and what you get from it worth the time? How much time (just a guess.. weekly?) does it take to do?

SCUBA,

I've put aprox. 6 hours into the first assignment and am just getting ready to start to compose my essay, which is actually quite short, for assignment 1. 10-12 hours per week, or about 20 hours per assignment probably isn't a stretch. If you have the time and are looking at becoming as officer it would be very beneficial.

I'll keep you posted to how it's going!