Smoke Diver

[wannabe]

Have any of you completed this course? Anywhere?

[colin911]

What is it????? Where have you heard of it?

[TiSme]

Ya ... I would be interested in finding out more about it.

[Whitewater_419]

I could be totally wrong here, but if I recall correctly, a smoke diver is a firefighter dropped into / near a wildfire / bush fire scene by air.

Dang, that'd be cool! I've got 5 jumps under my belt so far, just from recreational sky diving - 1 at 4000 feet, 2 at 5000 feet and 2 at 6000 feet - it's a feeling that is completely indescribable! :)

-Marc

[Michael13]

Do you mean smoke "JUMPER"? I have never heard of a diver. Fires dont burn underwater. :)

[telesquirt]

It must be a wildland term-- I used to fight fire for the M N R and we were known as a heli-attack crew and the closest we were allowed to get to jumping from an aircraft was when we did what is known as a low level hover exit.

The guys in the states have fire jumpers who parachute in as well as crews who rappel in to a fire, usually with no water source for miles--just hand tools and piss packs--I'm pretty sure those guys have big brass ones!----later--.

[BillyBlazes]

I have heard of this course being held in the U.S.
You perform several SCBA evolution, burn house, ladder drill, rapid escape, buddy rescue etc. You can only use alimited amount of breathing air in your SCBA cylinder.
The course teaches a firefighter to conserve their breathing air, not to panic etc.
It is a tough course to attend.

[wannabe]

No, Billy is right. They run it at a couple of schools but it's hard as h*ll to fing anything on the internet about upcoming courses.

Mississippi has one, TEEX, Flordia too supposedly. If you send away for the Mississippi course calender they have dates and info in it. It's meant to push you to the limit SCBA wise I gather and teach some advanced techniques. It's supposed to be tough physically but then you get to be one of the "elite" ceritified smoke divers LOL.

I just want to know if you already have to be a firefighter to get on the course. I'm going to call them.

If any of you guys find out anything I'd apprieciate the info.

Thanks,
Paula

Here's something I found...old but...

"Smoke diver 2000 to be offered in Beaumont
ments for attendance are strict. You must
be in good physical health with a thorough
understanding on SCBA. This course IS
NOT the place to learn donning skills. Advanced
survival skills will be taught and the
student will graduate as a member of an
elite group of “Smoke Divers.” For an application
or information contact: Wil Rains at
William_Rains@hunts-man.com or John
Paul Feeley at (409) 283-5411 or e-mail at
johnpaul@samlink.com. Website:http://
www.etffma.org smokediv.html.¶
Sep. 8-10, 2000, Beaumont Fire and Rescue
Services Training Field. Fee: $60. The
“Smoke Diver” course is an advanced
SCBA course. At this time it will only be
offered at the Annual Beaumont/East Texas"
Fire School in the spring and fall. Require

[SMOKEDIVER]

No, Billy is right. They run it at a couple of schools but it's hard as h*ll to fing anything on the internet about upcoming courses.

Mississippi has one, TEEX, Flordia too supposedly. If you send away for the Mississippi course calender they have dates and info in it. It's meant to push you to the limit SCBA wise I gather and teach some advanced techniques. It's supposed to be tough physically but then you get to be one of the "elite" ceritified smoke divers LOL.

I just want to know if you already have to be a firefighter to get on the course. I'm going to call them.

If any of you guys find out anything I'd apprieciate the info.

Thanks,
Paula

Here's something I found...old but...

"Smoke diver 2000 to be offered in Beaumont
ments for attendance are strict. You must
be in good physical health with a thorough
understanding on SCBA. This course IS
NOT the place to learn donning skills. Advanced
survival skills will be taught and the
student will graduate as a member of an
elite group of “Smoke Divers.” For an application
or information contact: Wil Rains at
William_Rains@hunts-man.com or John
Paul Feeley at (409) 283-5411 or e-mail at
johnpaul@samlink.com. Website:http://
www.etffma.org smokediv.html.¶
Sep. 8-10, 2000, Beaumont Fire and Rescue
Services Training Field. Fee: $60. The
“Smoke Diver” course is an advanced
SCBA course. At this time it will only be
offered at the Annual Beaumont/East Texas"
Fire School in the spring and fall. Require

LOL? WTF?

I am a Mississippi State Certified Smokediver. This is not a wildland course by any means. This course is often mistaken as an "advanced SCBA course". This is about 1/10th of what this class about. I have been a Smokediver for several years and as just so happens my father also became a Smokediver over 20 years ago. This is a physically demanding course with a 60-70% plus drop-out rate. This drop-out rate used to be over a 5 day period, but the class has now been "condensed" into four days. I have seen classes of 20+ guys start on monday morning and literally be down to two people by tuesday afternoon. This is a learn by mistake/repeat class. You do not take off your facemask all week, and you must always carry two SCBA bottles between evolutions in order to eliminate any "bottle fill time" aka rest if you f*** up. Then at the end of the day you get to run the penalty laps that you will aquire "under the stars" which usually range between 3 up to 10 miles. I recieved second degree burns to various parts of my body while attending this class. It is for these reasons and many more that I do not appreciate any "LOL" comments when speaking of this course.

[wilderness]

LOL? WTF?

I am a Mississippi State Certified Smokediver. This is not a wildland course by any means. This course is often mistaken as an "advanced SCBA course". This is about 1/10th of what this class about. I have been a Smokediver for several years and as just so happens my father also became a Smokediver over 20 years ago. This is a physically demanding course with a 60-70% plus drop-out rate. This drop-out rate used to be over a 5 day period, but the class has now been "condensed" into four days. I have seen classes of 20+ guys start on monday morning and literally be down to two people by tuesday afternoon. This is a learn by mistake/repeat class. You do not take off your facemask all week, and you must always carry two SCBA bottles between evolutions in order to eliminate any "bottle fill time" aka rest if you f*** up. Then at the end of the day you get to run the penalty laps that you will aquire "under the stars" which usually range between 3 up to 10 miles. I recieved second degree burns to various parts of my body while attending this class. It is for these reasons and many more that I do not appreciate any "LOL" comments when speaking of this course.
lmfao... now there's a comment

[Buckster]

Right...uh...welcome to the forums, diver......

[firefighter26]

Ok, I'll bite.....

I am a Mississippi State Certified Smokediver.

What exactly does this certificate allow you to do vs. if you didn't have it?

This is a learn by mistake/repeat class..... You do not take off your facemask all week, and you must always carry two SCBA bottles between evolutions in order to eliminate any "bottle fill time"..... aka rest if you f*** up....... Then at the end of the day you get to run the penalty laps that you will aquire "under the stars" which usually range between 3 up to 10 miles...... I recieved second degree burns to various parts of my body while attending this class. It is for these reasons and many more that I do not appreciate any "LOL" comments when speaking of this course.

Honestly, it sounds like a good way to injure a lot of firefighters simply for the purpose to prove that you can run around for 4 days with an SCBA on. I wonder if the high drop out rate isn't because it is to demanding or "elite" but because firefighters with common sense walk away after day 1 as there isn't really any value in the course?

The way you describe it in your brief paragraph it sounds like some kind of whoop-your-ass-marine-training-boot-camp, or at least how I envision it; IE, think of a marine boot camp with drill sergeants whooping your ass all day, now replace the rifle range with a burn building.

Besides, it seems to me to be teaching some of the WRONG values in fire fighting, IE, individualism rather than team work; unsafely pushing yourself to the limit and beyond; putting yourself at personal risk for a negligable gain (you speak of these second degree burns as a badge of honour and pride rather than what I see them as: I needless firefighter injury for no real tactical or strategical gain).

I am a firm believer that firefighters should always be training and learning new ideas. "You can never get enough tools in the tool box"; but if I was given the choice I would rather spend the four days learning about something like Hazmat, clandestine drug labs, RIT techniques, driver training, refreshing/recerting medical training or fire ground tactics.... you know, something that is going to save me, my buddy, and the people I am trying to protect in the community.

Wow, that turned into a rant way to quickly...... Jude, wilderness..... I think this might be my first post ever to be deleted......!

[iamvff]

Well then, I say LOL LOL LOl LOL!!! Cause Smoke says I can say that!!

iamvff

[dentedhead]

Smoke dont know how familiar you are with Canada, but we are free to laugh at anything we want.If that offends you sorry bout that chief!!

Sure its sounds like a grinder course and congrats on doing it.I hope that other than proving you got big stones there was a salient lesson other than how not to get burned.

Dentedhead

[DCCHam]

They wear SCBA for brush/wildland fires? I've been to alot of forest fires in my day....and have never seen anyone wear SCBA at one. :confused:

[iamvff]

They wear SCBA for brush/wildland fires? I've been to alot of forest fires in my day....and have never seen anyone wear SCBA at one. :confused:

we're quite a bit tougher up here! Besides that...with all the snow and Igloo's..why do we need firefighters??

iamvff

[wilderness]

we're quite a bit tougher up here! Besides that...with all the snow and Igloo's..why do we need firefighters??

iamvff
I undestand the Canadian Goverment will have us all living in Igloo's by next summer.... they have done research and found that there self extinguishing, so we will have no more need of firefighters......
I,m so sorry to here, that all you... who want to become firefighters and all of us who are will be looking for a new line of work........ Maybe just maybe we could all become smoke divers being, there's such a high drop out rate i,m sure there is openings........ If you have ACUC divers license or Patti, will that be taken in concideration????

[ABFF37]

LOL? WTF?

I am a Mississippi State Certified Smokediver. This is not a wildland course by any means. This course is often mistaken as an "advanced SCBA course". This is about 1/10th of what this class about. I have been a Smokediver for several years and as just so happens my father also became a Smokediver over 20 years ago. This is a physically demanding course with a 60-70% plus drop-out rate. This drop-out rate used to be over a 5 day period, but the class has now been "condensed" into four days. I have seen classes of 20+ guys start on monday morning and literally be down to two people by tuesday afternoon. This is a learn by mistake/repeat class. You do not take off your facemask all week, and you must always carry two SCBA bottles between evolutions in order to eliminate any "bottle fill time" aka rest if you f*** up. Then at the end of the day you get to run the penalty laps that you will aquire "under the stars" which usually range between 3 up to 10 miles. I recieved second degree burns to various parts of my body while attending this class. It is for these reasons and many more that I do not appreciate any "LOL" comments when speaking of this course.


Wow...sounds like a pretty dumb class. Are you really proud of your second degree burns? Maybe you see them as a badge of honour, but to me they are a mark of stupidity if this class is run how you say it is. Second degre burns to save a kid trapped in a burning house is one thing, second degree burns in some macho testosterone contest is just plain stupid. I'm a career firefighter and have spent many hundreds if not thousands of hours in different training scenarios...and I can safely say that none of them have been irrelevant and excessively dangerous like this smoke diving that you describe.

Reading that reminded me of other extreme training regimes that I have heard of before, like that "Hell night" in Memphis where new recruits were pushed far beyond their limits. Seven of them became injured as a result of this excessive training mentality, one of them slipped into a coma and spent a long time recovering in the hospital.
http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=45&id=37132

So forgive me please, but after reading a description of a ridiculous class like this smoke diver one, all I can do is laugh at it! LOL

AB

[iamvff]

NO NO AB...you've got it all wrong!! They don't do it to have a macho testosterone contest, they get second degree burns in practice to save a tree! You think about that young man next time your looking for a piece of paper to write on....and can't find one! Personally, on behalf of all of the administration in the world....I think we owe smokediver and very big thank you!!

THANK YOU, my typewriter would be useless without you!
iamvff

[ABFF37]

NO NO AB...you've got it all wrong!! They don't do it to have a macho testosterone contest, they get second degree burns in practice to save a tree! You think about that young man next time your looking for a piece of paper to write on....and can't find one! Personally, on behalf of all of the administration in the world....I think we owe smokediver and very big thank you!!

THANK YOU, my typewriter would be useless without you!
iamvff

Darn it!! I KNEW I was missing something! Thanks for clearing that up iamvff! Trees are one of our most important natural resources, so I see now that this is no laughing matter after all. Oh, and I'm on my way up to the attic to get my typewriter down...hehehe

AB;):D

[PEMS17]

what's a typewriter?

[iamvff]

what's a typewriter?

it's the thing that sits beside the 8-track!

iamvff

[PEMS17]

OK, is the 8-track some kind of off road vehicle that I haven't broke a part of my body with yet?

[geoffey]

I could be totally wrong here, but if I recall correctly, a smoke diver is a firefighter dropped into / near a wildfire / bush fire scene by air.

Dang, that'd be cool! I've got 5 jumps under my belt so far, just from recreational sky diving - 1 at 4000 feet, 2 at 5000 feet and 2 at 6000 feet - it's a feeling that is completely indescribable! :)

-Marc

No thats a Smokejumper, whereby we respond to remote Initial Attack Forest Fires by Parachuting from a Twin Otter Aircraft.. thats what I do for the BC Forest Service.. I've never heard the term 'Smokediver'......... sounds misleading tho

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/protect/crews/parattack/index.htm

[firefighter26]

it's the thing that sits beside the 8-track!

That brings back childhood memories of driving the waterfront in my dad's Cordoba listening to Hotel Calinfornia on 8 track!!! I think that song had 3 track changes in because it was so long! I have the eagle's greatest hits CD in my car now.... I guess I didn't fall to far from the tree ;).... which I wont complain, as I have a lot of respect for my father as a hard nosed, no none sense, lead the way by example fire chief..... one day.....

[FireChef]

LOL? WTF?

I am a Mississippi State Certified Smokediver. This is not a wildland course by any means. This course is often mistaken as an "advanced SCBA course". This is about 1/10th of what this class about. I have been a Smokediver for several years and as just so happens my father also became a Smokediver over 20 years ago. This is a physically demanding course with a 60-70% plus drop-out rate. This drop-out rate used to be over a 5 day period, but the class has now been "condensed" into four days. I have seen classes of 20+ guys start on monday morning and literally be down to two people by tuesday afternoon. This is a learn by mistake/repeat class. You do not take off your facemask all week, and you must always carry two SCBA bottles between evolutions in order to eliminate any "bottle fill time" aka rest if you f*** up. Then at the end of the day you get to run the penalty laps that you will aquire "under the stars" which usually range between 3 up to 10 miles. I recieved second degree burns to various parts of my body while attending this class. It is for these reasons and many more that I do not appreciate any "LOL" comments when speaking of this course.

Sounds like a fun filled course!!...Where do I sign up for it?? Its been awhile since I got an old fashioned second degree burn....LOL.....So let me get this straight (stop me if I am wrong) you carry around 2 SCBA bottles with you to elimate "bottle fill times", what happens when both bottles are empty???

Course makes sense none this!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL

[cdnbacon]

I melted my visor in a training excerise and got torn a new arsehole. I can't even imagine what would have happened if sustained second degree burns. Most likely the training grounds would have been shut down by WCB.

[iamvff]

I wonder why smokediver hasn't came back to visit?? Seemed like a nice enough guy! :o

iamvff :cool:

[smokdvr]

Do not know if anyone still cares about this post, but I went through the MS Smoke Diver course in 1996. There have been many since and I am working with someone that is going in November. This course is about structural firefighting. Teaches you your limits in an airpack and in a heated environment. You learn your capabilities in different environments. House fires, confined space, rope rescue, petroleum fires, air crash fires, etc..

Someone stated you want to train to get out or maybe your buddy, that is what this class is all about. You are paired with a partner and you go in together and come out together. You are bonded at the hip. Never leave your partner behind.

This is a stressful class. Very physical. The weak need not apply. Firefighting is a physical job and I know when I see another FF that is a smoke diver that he will be there with me when the crap hits the fan.

People do not just quit, they are physically unable to keep going. This is an elite group of FFs. If you have not ever been through the course, I highly recommend it. I love my job and want to be the best at it. That is why I took this course and push others to complete it.

Only time success comes before work is in the dictionary