Vehicle Replacement Schedule

[ssifire]

We're currently working on our departments 10 year strategic plan, and I was wondering if anyone out there has the Fire Underwriters recommended vehicle replacement schedule.

If I remember it correctly, it states Engines should go to reserve after 15 years and replaced at 20. Tenders would be the same, and I'm not sure on Light Attach Vehicles, or command / support vehicles. I also couldn't find any recommendations from NFPA on replacement.

Currently we replace;

Engines at 20 years
Tenders at 20 years
LAV at 15 years
Support at 5 years

Can anyone shed some light?

Thanks,

[Scuba]

Voila...



1) All fire fighting apparatus must meet the underwriters' Laboratories of Canada Standard S-515 for firefighting apparatus
for construction, design, equipment and testing.

2) Apparatus must be regularly maintained and tested as appropriate.

3)Ages, due to the general unavailability of parts for the chassis and power trains, as well as design obsolescence are based on usage. In general FUS will give credit for apparatus as follows

a)In larger cities a maximum of fifteen years in the first line duty. This may be reduced to 12 or even 10 for extremely busy apparatus. This may be followed by up to an additional 5 years in reserve duty.

b) In averaged sized municipalities a maximum of fifteen years in first line service and up to an additional five years in second line duty. An additional of five years may be allowed in reserve status.

c) In smaller municipalities with low call volumes, FUS will allow up to twenty years in first line service with up to five additional years in second line or reserve duty.

Note: In all cases any credit given to the apparatus will depend on the condition and testing of the vehicle regardless of it's actual age.

The break down I heard about city vs average vs small was 20,000+/5,000-20,000/5,000- .... Don't quote me.. that's third hand info. The rest comes from a FUS memo from 2004.

[DFCSmash]

Scuba, can I find that memo online? If so where? Rural Council is meeting today and the new pumper is on their agenda. I' d like to hand them that. I remember seeing it before but couldn't find it. If I don't give them a couple of places to look it up themselves, they'll just accuse the Dept. of making it up.

Our newest pumper is a 1985, next is a 1982 (Stn 2), then the old 1971 Thibeault. So our newest unit was 21 years in service in Sept/06. This would mean only 4 years left in its lifespan as a recognized piece of Fire Apparatus.

Hopefully this would also help our argument for the replacement pumper. This is the council who's former reeve argued that it would be cheaper for the R.M. to fold the F.D. and just pay the increase in premiums on the residents insurance. 30 years later, all new councillors, but they still think that way on far too many occasions! And one of them, even quotes that statement as if it makes sense!:rolleyes:

So help me out if you can!

[Scuba]

Not online that I know of.... nothing from FUS is that I can find... but send me a fax number and I'll fire it off to ya....

[LTPVFD]

Hey SSIFIRE:

Current standard is ULC S515-04. Can't seem to find a copy of it either,
unless I want to download the document at a cost of $185.00 Perhaps
local council could order a copy, and use it as the reference during their
discussions. :rolleyes:

Stay safe !!


LTPVFD

[Scuba]

hmmm....I think I have a copy of that kickin around somewhere too....

[ssifire]

Hey SSIFIRE:

Current standard is ULC S515-04.


I have the ULC S515-04 standards, somewhere under all this paperwork, but I don't think it has replacement standards in it.

Scuba, can I find that memo online? If so where? Rural Council is meeting today and the new pumper is on their agenda. I' d like to hand them that. I remember seeing it before but couldn't find it. If I don't give them a couple of places to look it up themselves, they'll just accuse the Dept. of making it up.


We're in a similar boat... if you can't prove it with paperwork, it's just a wish.

I've got a couple of e-mails out, if I find anything further, I'll pass it back to you Smash.

[Scuba]

We're in a similar boat... if you can't prove it with paperwork, it's just a wish.

I've got a couple of e-mails out, if I find anything further, I'll pass it back to you Smash.

I can fax it to you too if you want.....

[DFCSmash]

If I line up 6 brainless councillors and shoot them all with one bullet, is it still a waste of a bullet?

Tabled the decision til after the Municipal convention. Which is next week. All tenders expire Dec. 8 or sooner. Pinheads

[Ruckus]

Talk to your Mutual Aid Coordinator from the OFC. Ours is really good about showing up for Council meetings if we think our councilors need extra convincing. They are rediculously busy though, so try and give them a month or two of heads up time.

Theoretically, if the insurance companies of any of your residents within 5 miles of your firehall were to perform a community assessment (which they try and do every few years) they'd basically rate your community as "Unprotected". The insurance rates would then rise for each constituent in that area.

[iamvff]

Ruckus...who is you ESO?

iamvff

[Ruckus]

Ruckus...who is you ESO?

iamvff

Gillis, BORMAD

[firefighter26]

I've been through the same dance as the rest of you.

I basically put together a purposal that overloaded the council with facts and numbers. IE, showed what it would cost to repair and maintain the old pumper (in the range of $10-$15K per year just to keep it on the road) and given that it had a limit service life left (a 1981, at the time it was at its 20 year mark).

Also in the same perposal I outlined the projected inflation on purchasing a new truck (I found a financial site online that said that the average inflation was 5% per year on emergency vehicles).

A few fancy graphs showed that using the FDs accumulated savings to repair an old truck was a WORSE financial decision than buying a new truck right away (because our savings would be depleated and the truck we wanted to buy would be more expensive by the time we were done flogging the dead truck).

Meanwhile, I also showed what would happen if there was a catostrophic failure and the truck was not able to be repaired and we did not have a replacement. IE: The insurance rates for the average house in the district would go up by 400% or more... which might not be a lot for a $30K mobile home, but for the 1 and 2 million dollar water front homes and nigh end luxury resort (Aerie Resort) (http://www.aerie.bc.ca/)it would be a HUGE difference and you could bet they'd be complaining about it!

Incidently, I have been looking at insurance for a place I might buy.
No protection: Over $1000 per year
VFD protection (no hydrants): $550 per year
VFD with municipal hydrant within 1000 ft: $310 per year
*all numbers approximites

I found all my information on the inter-web or by talked to a local insurance company. They were more than happy to give me names and contact people as high up as the UL labs back east and in the US in regards to fire service standards, etc, etc.

Unfortunitly, all my notes are long since either lost or packed away with my other FD stuff (the stuff that I didn't burn in a bonfire last year).

[ssifire]

So I received the offical standards from a Company that performs Fire Underwriters' Surveys. It re-iterates what SCUBA posted, along with the testing standards a vehicle must go through, and how often to be recognized by the Underwriters for insurance purposes.

They seem to be only primary concerned with Engines & Pumps. There doesn't seem to be any clear standards on Tenders, Rescues, Light Attach, or Support Vehicles.

The only statement I got on the other vehicles were that they needed to be in good working order and must be reliable to be used in the over all rating, but they tend to shy away from vehicles over the 25 year mark.

PM me if you want more info.