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  #1  
Old 02-03-2006, 11:53 AM
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tmehmel tmehmel is offline
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Location: Elie, Manitoba
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Default Manitoba firefighter not authorized to drive ambulance involved in collision

WINNIPEG (CP) -- A volunteer firefighter with the Rural Municipality of Cartier was not authorized to drive an ambulance involved in a fatal collision last week.

Larry Skoglund, a practice leader with Emergency Medical Services, says the Ambulance Act specifies that ambulances must be driven by EMS personnel.

Skoglund says an investigation has been launched to determine if there were extenuating circumstances in this case.

Martin Malcovish, 81, of Winnipeg, died when he lost control of his car on the ice-covered Trans-Canada Highway and slid into the path of the ambulance.

The ambulance had been transporting patients involved in an earlier collision near Elie.

RCMP say the firefighter who was driving the ambulance while a paramedic worked on the patients wasn't at fault and charges aren't being contemplated.

None of the occupants of the ambulance was injured in the second crash.
end of article

Just to clarify this article, the driver was authorized under the Highway traffic act to drive this vehicle and was pressed into service only because both of the EMTs had to both work with the patient. the only issue is the Ambulance Act.
tom
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  #2  
Old 02-03-2006, 12:12 PM
Toxic Toxic is offline
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Why would anyone think that a firefighter who normally drives a heavy truck loaded with a tank of moving water could be capable of driving an smaller and lighter vehicle like an ambulance. I think the reason is common sense. I can't beleive this is an issue.
The ambulance act obviously needs to be changed.
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  #3  
Old 02-03-2006, 12:39 PM
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BCFFFV BCFFFV is offline
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For the same silly reason why in B.C. someone with a class 3 can drive a big 3 axle vehicle but not a taxi.....Even though the class 4 license gives no extra training for somehow driving different with passengers.
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Old 02-03-2006, 05:42 PM
PEMS17 PEMS17 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic
Why would anyone think that a firefighter who normally drives a heavy truck loaded with a tank of moving water could be capable of driving an smaller and lighter vehicle like an ambulance. I think the reason is common sense. I can't beleive this is an issue.
The ambulance act obviously needs to be changed.
I can see your point however, and this is a big however, was the individual even authorized to drive a fire truck, did he have appropriate training to operatate an emergency vehicle. As far as I know, no where in MB are you required to have an EVOC course to become a firefighter. Individual departments may have requirements once you are on board. It is required curriculam for EMT

That all being said, another fine example of what MB health is all about

p.s. they did just change the act, comes into effect April 1,2006
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  #5  
Old 02-06-2006, 08:31 PM
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FLASHOVER05 FLASHOVER05 is offline
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In the GTA, specifically Toronto... Fire is not allowed to Drive an Ambulance for any reason, however Police can drive in certain situations
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Old 02-06-2006, 08:49 PM
ABFF37 ABFF37 is offline
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In Calgary, firefighters regularly drive ambulances for EMS (note: I'm not starting a debate on the term "ambulance driver" LOL, but that would literally be our job, to drive).

When a medical call is serious enough to warrant both the medics in the back of the ambulance with the patient, EMS will request a driver from fire. Usually we are already on scene providing a medical assist, but in some cases we will be called out specifically for a driver. That happens most often if the call turns out to be more serious than initially thought, or if the patient's condition rapidly deteriorates.

Calgary Fire and EMS are both city run departments, and my understanding of the situation is that we are all covered by the city for insurance purposes, and authrized to drive for EMS when the need arises.

Also, new recruits for Calgary need to have their class 3/4 license, so they're able to operate fire apparatus (class 3) and ambulances (class 4). When the recruits are in rookie school, they complete a three day long emergency vehicle operation course, and in addition to being competent with fire apparatus, they must complete some of their training in an ambulance. So our guys are regularly called upon to assist EMS by driving to the hospital, but we have a pretty comprehensive system set up to make sure that we're trained and authorized to do so.

AB
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  #7  
Old 02-06-2006, 09:07 PM
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iamvff iamvff is offline
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Hey Ab,
FYI - If I understand it correctly, I believe he was licenced to drive emergency vehicle, but under the Manitoba Regional Health Authority, you have to be licensed (or permitted through them)to be authorized to drive their vehicles.

iamvff
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  #8  
Old 02-07-2006, 12:07 AM
ABFF37 ABFF37 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamvff
Hey Ab,
FYI - If I understand it correctly, I believe he was licenced to drive emergency vehicle, but under the Manitoba Regional Health Authority, you have to be licensed (or permitted through them)to be authorized to drive their vehicles.

iamvff
Roger that
I wasn't 100% sure of the regulations with Manitoba health, but the way you describe it there is pretty much how I read it as well now.

I just know that in town here it's a pretty well established that FF's are permitted to drive Calgary EMS apparatus...no one else's (no Foothills Regional, Cochrane, etc.). Sounds like in this case unfortunately there was some misunderstanding or miscommunication of who is allowed to do what. I hope that everything works out well for those involved!

AB
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  #9  
Old 02-07-2006, 10:21 AM
PEMS17 PEMS17 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamvff
Hey Ab,
FYI - If I understand it correctly, I believe he was licenced to drive emergency vehicle, but under the Manitoba Regional Health Authority, you have to be licensed (or permitted through them)to be authorized to drive their vehicles.

iamvff
JUst a small correction, he may well have had a CLass 4 license or higher, which entitles him to operate an ambulance according to the Highway Traffic Act, however the Ambulance and Stretcher Act has seperate licensing requirements for Operators and attendants of ambulances. These licenses are issued by MB Health and not the Regional Health Authorities, The RHA apply to MB Health on your behalf to act as your sponsor to have you licensed to be an EMS practitioner in the province.
Personally don't have a huge deal with it, but rules are rules. Unfortunately theis FF was put in a crappy situation by medics that should not have asked this of him if he didn't have the license.
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  #10  
Old 02-07-2006, 10:43 AM
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dentedhead dentedhead is offline
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Location: Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLASHOVER05
In the GTA, specifically Toronto... Fire is not allowed to Drive an Ambulance for any reason, however Police can drive in certain situations
That may have changed with amalgamation.EMS and Police were always employees of "Metropolitan Toronto" the fire departments were all employees of the seperate cities IE North York Etobicoke city of Toronto etc,it was more an insurance issue than a licenseing issue,

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