Flow paths, transitional attack and a change in our approach.

General firefighting discussion.
User avatar
Raker
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:33 pm

Flow paths, transitional attack and a change in our approach.

Postby Raker » Mon May 19, 2014 1:20 am

I have a few very informative videos to share. They discuss flow paths and challenge the way that we have traditionally approached fire suppression. They're worth a look for sure. The first one is short and is a study conducted by NIST and UL. The remaining three are about an hour long each and done by The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in the US. If you do look at one or all of them please come back to discuss. Im interested in what you think.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lkM2AsZqlM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82OJqcftNVg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISJuQfcj62A


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIjOGCAZfgk
I intend to live forever - so far, so good.

FF95
Posts: 461
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:33 pm

Thanks

Postby FF95 » Mon May 19, 2014 9:04 am

[quote=""Raker""]I have a few very informative videos to share. They discuss flow paths and challenge the way that we have traditionally approached fire suppression. They're worth a look for sure. The first one is short and is a study conducted by NIST and UL. The remaining three are about an hour long each and done by The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in the US. If you do look at one or all of them please come back to discuss. Im interested in what you think.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lkM2AsZqlM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82OJqcftNVg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISJuQfcj62A


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIjOGCAZfgk[/quote]

I only had a chance to watch he first video. I took a course that was instructed by a very informative and insightful training officer and we touched on this in great detail... He to told us you can't "push the fire"... He did say that if you attack the fire from the exterior withs fog pattern you can certainly feed the fire like a reverse hydraulic ventilation and to always use a straight stream.

We also touched on "vent profiling" and how when you enter through a door and probably head down a corridor or hallway to reach the fire, the fire will start to be drawn to that opening for more O2/ air to feed the fire. He was sharing with us that depts. in Europe will go as far as cutting the bottom of the door off with a saw about 6"-8" to allow the hoses to be advanced while still controlling the fire with ventilation by keeping the majority of that opening closed.

Also the idea of adding 2 stages to the stages of fire development stages. Incipient, growth, growth decay, regrowth, fully developed and decay. Often times fire is self vent controlled. The fire can only grow until it consumes all of its o2 supply. The fire will start to decay until someone opens that front door or makes an opening and the fire will start to grow again. If we can minimize the amount of openings to lessen the chance of the fire growing it will be safer for everyone involved. Like the thinking mentioned above.

Pretty advanced thinking and probably will take a little while for North America to catch on to. If I get a chance ill watch the other three videos. Thanks for posting and I have definitely saved them to share with others. After all that's what it's all about, sharing ideas and experiences and learning from others.
Last edited by FF95 on Mon May 19, 2014 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bigsmoke
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:33 pm

Postby bigsmoke » Mon May 19, 2014 4:17 pm

[quote=""Raker""]I have a few very informative videos to share. They discuss flow paths and challenge the way that we have traditionally approached fire suppression. They're worth a look for sure. The first one is short and is a study conducted by NIST and UL. The remaining three are about an hour long each and done by The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in the US. If you do look at one or all of them please come back to discuss. Im interested in what you think.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lkM2AsZqlM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82OJqcftNVg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISJuQfcj62A


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIjOGCAZfgk[/quote]

We have just started to train in this. like many I was skeptical, however it's tough to argue with science and sometimes it turns out science is really common sense.

We need to not view this technique as "New" however it's another tool that is effective and provides the opportunity for aggressive interior attack when many I.C's are now diverting to defensive attack so much sooner.
B.S.
"Anyone can be trained to be a firefighter, it takes brains to survive"

bloggins
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:33 pm

Postby bloggins » Sat May 24, 2014 7:56 am

"Offensive benefit / Defensive position."

Hard from the yard / softening the target... all of it is spot on. That first video was a perfect walkthrough on exactly why these tactics are so important and allows first due apparatus to buy time for supporting resources. Gives operators a chance to secure hydrant supply while using minimal tankage for those first few moves.

Done properly we can see that these tactics will minimize negative effects inside a structure while still giving an officer the opportunity to get a full walk around done before commiting his / her resources to an action plan.

Now then- as a matter of discussion... In the first video the host / speaker ends up pointing out and emphasizing that this is not a defensive tactic- performed with a handline at a steep angle with a straight stream / solid bore to the ceiling it can achieve massive knockdown with 10-15 seconds of water applied.

Would you perform this in a coordinated fashion with interior crews working in the structure or would you manage it as a 1-2 maneuver so as to minimize firefighters potentially interfering with one another's activities.


Good post btw... thanks for putting it out there for discussion.
B. Bloggins
AFD / FOD
"Because sometimes what they know CAN hurt you."

bloggins
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:33 pm

Postby bloggins » Sat May 24, 2014 9:57 pm

Well I got a chance to sit through all 4 videos today and I was really impressed by them. This should be standard viewing for any company officer / IC since the principles are simple to grasp, understand and apply while ironically not being standard teaching.

The question I asked for input as somewhat answered in the 3rd video in terms of the expected application of the concept- and I was happy that my own thoughts were in line with the discoveries.
Last edited by bloggins on Sat May 24, 2014 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
B. Bloggins
AFD / FOD
"Because sometimes what they know CAN hurt you."

User avatar
wearitwell
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:33 pm

Postby wearitwell » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:45 pm

really good videos, starting also to train like this.
Last edited by wearitwell on Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests